The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

reneweddaybyday · Jul 2, 2023

1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner

now continue reading to the verses you rip from the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed them ... all in your futile attempt to support your erroneous dogma ...

brightfame52 said:

The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.

https://www.gotquestions.org/context-Bible.html

"If you dont believe this, thats your unbelief"
.

brightfame52 · Jul 2, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner

now continue reading to the verses you rip from the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed them ... all in your futile attempt to support your erroneous dogma ...

The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.

https://www.gotquestions.org/context-Bible.html

"If you dont believe this, thats your unbelief"
.

You still in disbelief !

reneweddaybyday · Jul 2, 2023

brightfame52 said:

the one who is "still in disbelief" is the one who claims ...

brightfame52 said:

... the one who claims ...

brightfame52 said:

Your claim that "Christ's death ... was worthless, unfruitful" directly contradicts what is written in Scripture:

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot

Your claim that "God enslaved and imprisoned" anyone "into the power of satan and unbelief" directly contradicts what is written in Scripture:

Psalm 9:16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

rogerg · Jul 2, 2023

brightfame52 said:

brightfame52,

She didn't include nor does she understand verses 1 Pe 2:8 - 9; that is, those disobedient were appointed to their disobedience
(2 Pet 2:8); those obedient, were appointed by God to their obedience (see the "BUT YE - 2 Pet 2:9)"; neither does she understand Rom 1:4,5: if someone has been given grace and apostleship by Christ for an obedience to the faith (as we are so informed in Rom 1:4,5), it must follow then that they have also been given faith in conjunction with obedience, otherwise, how else can someone be obedient to a faith that they don't have (see "Who by him do believe", 1 Pe 1:21)?

I don't see how it could be clearer.

[Rom 1:4-6 KJV]
4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[1Pe 2:8-9 KJV]
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

brightfame52 · Jul 2, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

the one who is "still in disbelief" is the one who claims ...

... the one who claims ...

Your claim that "Christ's death ... was worthless, unfruitful" directly contradicts what is written in Scripture:

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot

Your claim that "God enslaved and imprisoned" anyone "into the power of satan and unbelief" directly contradicts what is written in Scripture:

Psalm 9:16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

You still in unbelief !

brightfame52 · Jul 2, 2023

rogerg said:

Yes the atonement of Christ provides, effects obedience to the Gospel. His death causes our return to God 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

How do we live to righteousness ? By Faith, so Faith is given in the New Birth

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 2, 2023

rogerg said:

The word "disobedient" is translated from the Greek word apistéō and it reveals a person is unconvinced when they should be persuaded by what the Lord has done ... iow God reaches out to the disobedient ones and they reject Him.

The word "disallowed" is translated from the Greek word apodokimázō and it means to cast away after thorough investigation (testing); to reject after determining something is useless (unworthy) ... iow after investigating/testing, those who are disobedient determine the Lord Jesus Christ is useless (unworthy) ... just like your good buddy brightfame52 believes (and apparently you agree with brightfame52 as you continuously give the thumbs up on posts submitted by him or her).

as far as the words whereunto also they were appointed ??? ... those who "remain unconvinced when they should be persuaded by what the Lord has done" (the disobedient ones) and who reject the Lord Jesus Christ "after thorough investigation ... reject after determining something is useless (unworthy)" ... those are the ones God has appointed to destruction.

In eternity past, God didn't go "eeny, meeny, miny, moe ... Mary yes; Johnny no".

In eternity past, God determined that those who are disobedient after God reached out to them (and God reaches out more than one time during the lifetime of Adam's descendants) ... those are the ones who are appointed to destruction.

Here is God's desire for the wicked:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

The disobedient of 1 Peter 2:8 are the same as those spoken of in Romans 1 ... those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness and who are without excuse because they reject God:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to hold back, to suppress, to restrain.

In vs 19, we see what it is that men restrain ... that which may be known of God ... for God showed it to them. God reveals Himself, His truth, and that truth, that revelation is suppressed and restrained. So it is mankind who restrains. It is not God Who causes mankind to suppress/restrain ... nor is it satan who causes mankind to restrain ... it is the person himself or herself.

In vs 20, God's eternal power and Godhead is suppressed, restrained, rejected and that is why they are without excuse.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 2, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... not holding to your eisegesis does not equal "unbelief !"

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

you, brightfame52, have:

1) forsaken the fountain of living waters in your obnoxious claim that the death of the Lord Jesus Christ was "worthless, unfruitful"

2) hewed yourself cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water in your futile attempts to support your erroneous dogma.

You must align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error ...

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 2, 2023

brightfame52 said:

what you continously do, brightfame52, is put the cart before the horse. You claim the unbeliever is born again before he or she can believe that through which he or she is born again.

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

under your erroneous dogma, how many times must a person be born again before he or she is really, really, really, truly, scout's honor, born again???
.

brightfame52 · Jul 3, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

... not holding to your eisegesis does not equal "unbelief !"

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

you, brightfame52, have:

1) forsaken the fountain of living waters in your obnoxious claim that the death of the Lord Jesus Christ was "worthless, unfruitful"

2) hewed yourself cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water in your futile attempts to support your erroneous dogma.

You must align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error ...

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

You still in unbelief.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 3, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... the one who is "still in unbelief" is the one who claims the death of the Lord Jesus Christ was "worthless, unfruitful" ... and that "God enslaved and imprisoned His People into the power of satan and unbelief" ... and that would be you, brightfame52.

What God's Word teaches concerning the inestimable worth of the death of the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot

What God's Word teaches concerning your claim that "God enslaved and imprisoned" anyone "into the power of satan and unbelief":

Psalm 9:16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.
.

brightfame52 · Jul 3, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

... the one who is "still in unbelief" is the one who claims the death of the Lord Jesus Christ was "worthless, unfruitful" ... and that "God enslaved and imprisoned His People into the power of satan and unbelief" ... and that would be you, brightfame52.

What God's Word teaches concerning the inestimable worth of the death of the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot

What God's Word teaches concerning your claim that "God enslaved and imprisoned" anyone "into the power of satan and unbelief":

Psalm 9:16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.
.

I have witness to you the death of Christ saves them He died for 1 Pet 2:24-25 and you dont believe, thats unbelief, you dont have Faith in Christ !

fredoheaven · Jul 3, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner

now continue reading to the verses you rip from the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed them ... all in your futile attempt to support your erroneous dogma ...

The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.

https://www.gotquestions.org/context-Bible.html

"If you dont believe this, thats your unbelief"
.

If it is not in the "context" it will "con" you. Yes, I believe it is simple as ABC "Always By the Context.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 4, 2023

fredoheaven said:

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

fredoheaven · Jul 4, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Correct 💯 percent

rogerg · Jul 4, 2023

fredoheaven said:

Then just out of curiosity, what do you make out of these verses?

[1Co 2:12-13 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

[2Pe 1:19-20 KJV]
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[Mat 13:35 KJV]
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

[Mar 4:11 KJV] 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:

reneweddaybyday · Jul 4, 2023

rogerg said:

... you so silly, rogerg ... fredoheaven submitted a post wherein it is stated that "If it is not in the "context" it will "con" you. Yes, I believe it is simple as ABC "Always By the Context" ... and then you ask about verses you pluck out of the context wherein the Author of Scripture has placed the verse.

rogerg said:

click

rogerg said:

click

rogerg said:

click
(also check out Psalm 78 ... which Matt 13:35 quotes from ... read the whole psalm ... it speaks of God's goodness, grace, lovingkindness, and mercy extended to mankind ... and those who reject Him - not because God didn't "choose" them, but because they rejected God)
.
.

rogerg · Jul 4, 2023

fredoheaven said:

I especially should also have included this verse in my prior post to you:

[Gal 4:24 KJV] 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

brightfame52 · Jul 5, 2023

It cancels death the wage for sin !

Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

All for whom Christ died [The Gift of God Jn 4:10], His Death for them paid the penalty of their sins, hence for them canceling or abolishing for them death, and hence its only Just with God that they should be delivered from death [which is the consequences of their sins], that is Spiritual Death, and Spiritual Darkness, and Unbelief; Now Understand something, for anyone He died for to remain in sin/unbelief, means that His death was ineffectual, failed to cancel and abolish death which we know His Death did 2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

That word abolished also means loosed from as in Rom 7:2

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed G2673 from the law of her husband.

Thats what Christ's death did for all whom He died, it loosed them from the law of Spiritual death, so for anyone Christ died for to remain in spiritual death and unbelief and darkness, it means His Death failed to abolish death, nor did it prevail with God in fully Satisfying His Law and Justice on their behalf, since they are not delivered from death and its consequences ! 32

GrahamJParkinson · Jul 5, 2023

You are the elect? Only those who OBEY Jesus... First Understanding his teachings. Christianity does not.

The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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