I Hope Your Pastor Doesn't Preach This

I heard a sermon today (Colossians 1:9-14) that was very well-organized and thoughtful. The pastor did a masterful job presenting it, and it centered on us moving in the direction of being like Jesus. Who could fault that?

Prelude to the Sinner's Prayer
My concern is what he said afterward. As with Sunday services at most churches, the pastor asked if there was anyone ready to make a "decision for Christ." Again, not unusual, but it's what he said just before taking everyone through the sinner's prayer. He said:

"look, it's not about getting out of hell, it's about being like Jesus!"

To someone who's never picked up a bible before, this sounds reasonable. After all, if they've ever been to another church, hell was probably not mentioned there, either -- or they, like so many others, denied its existence.

What is Being Saved Really About?
If being saved is not about staying out of hell, what could it be about? Way too many pastors, preachers, elders, and ministers make it about this:

• Having a better life (God has a perfect, wonderful plan for it)
• Being a better person
• The Gifts of the Spirit
• Living a Godly life
• The Great Commission
• Being more like Jesus

John 3:16 Revisited
While all these benefits, hopes, and mandates are wonderful to move toward, it's not the reason why God sent his only begotten Son. Here's the verse we all know so well:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 ESV

This verse isn't saying that whoever believes in him shall:

• Drive a nicer car
• Live in an awesome house
• Join the middle class
• Have a perfect marriage
• Be a Godly man or woman
• Be like Jesus
• Go preach the Gospel

No, it says that whoever believes in him shall not perish. So, what does perish mean in this context?

Eternal spiritual death.

Well, that doesn't sound so bad, right? After all, everyone knows you're going to die sometime past 80 years old, anyway.

Who Was John 3:16 Written For?
I believe John 3:16 was written for those who understand what's at stake. They know the contrast between heaven and hell, and they fear God's immutable wrath.

I'm no theologian, but I've seen the verses where Jesus talks about hell as being a place where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth. Other verses point to a lake of fire and the outer darkness. That's enough for me.

Children talk About Heaven and Hell
When I was a child, my neighbor friend and I obsessed about heaven and hell. We were curious and frightened at the same time. I'm now learning -- since I have a young son of my own -- that kids often obsess about heaven and hell and that we lose that curiosity when we become "adults."

Our Responsibility as Believers
We, as followers of Christ, are responsible for telling the truth to the unsaved about hell. It's an ugly place that should frighten us to our core. I think anyone with an imagination could figure that out. I don't think God has revealed everything about it. It's so nasty, he wants to spare us all the details.

Still, I think we have enough information to conclude that we wouldn't want our worst enemy spending eternity in hell. Therefore, I think it's okay to bring it up in conversation with the unsaved. Don't you?

Living by Godly principles does save us from our sinful selves...

Is there something wrong with pastors, preachers, elders, and ministers teaching that? .

Jesus taught about hell frequently, so we should too.

Did you go up to him later and ask him why he said this since it was not consistent with Gospel truth? Did you tell him that it was his duty to preach the true and full Gospel and explain to his hearers what Mark 16:15,16 is all about?

No, it does not. Only Jesus can do that. We do not have the power to save us from our sinful selves. You know this, my sister.

He was unavailable, as most pastors are. They're probably sick of people like me calling them out.

It would have been nice to get his response, though. I'm certain he did not mean to say that staying out of hell wasn't important. I would have gently reminded him how it came across, though.

Perhaps you misunderstand. If you live by the Godly principle, do not bear false witness, for instance, you
are saved from the consequences of being dishonest. I am not sure why you would disagree with what I
said, otherwise. Disagreeing is like saying, obeying the commandments will not make your life better .
Unless you thought I meant obeyance to the law brings salvation. Nah, how could you think I meant that? .

I used to attend a Non denominational church that was taught by a well studied intellectual. I used to wonder why he never mentioned hell all of those years.
One day I asked a couple ladies parents about their salvation and tried to lead them to Christ . I thought the ladies would be glad and want their parents saved since we went to church together. However, Melanie and Colleen were upset. I learned that they were somewhat Calvinistic and that they didn't like me showing why and where we need saved from. This was the simple message.

I left that church and am motivated by the love of not seeing folks condemned.

John3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

but can we say also what happens if one doesn’t repent and obey the lord ?

That seems to be a biblical point many flat reject and it’s an important one

So you have this grace that saves us

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭

This grace that saves us teaching us about repentance and living right in this present world while we are waiting for Jesus and then without that part you have the word grace that eliminates everything else and becomes the reason we dont have to repent and obey god


“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s alot of this in Paul’s epistles it’s meant to bring us to repentance and obedience becaue of this also true statement

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He doesn’t want man to perish so he’s offered us repentance and remission of sins

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: ( everyone accepts this part but many reject the rest ) and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we don’t acknolwedge this part we’ll never come to here

longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

Or here

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and we can even find ourselves offended by Paul’s writings because he talks about saved by grace in one place but th. Is talkin about actions and consequences in other places warning us telling us plainly to work out our own salvstion with the fear and trembling these truths should bring us

And it is actually accomplished through obedience and submission resulting from the work God does in us to change our corrupt Will and our corrupt actions

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is trying to change us from sinful people to righteous ones in actual deed and truth he’s calling what was not , to become he’s speaking righteousness into sinners hearts that hesr and believe him

First, we have to get to the point of repentance, turning from sin, and turning to Jesus Christ. We aren't making a compelling enough case to the person who thinks they're "good." Therefore, we need to be preaching the consequences of hell before talking about leading a Godly life. Otherwise, it's not going to make sense to most people.

Those who recite the sinner's prayer purely in the hopes of gaining a better life will be turned away. Our Lord will tell them, "I never knew you." A frightening thought, for sure.

I would add that we need to inform sinners that hell or the everlasting fire was originally created for the Devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). If we can then help to convince sinners, by God's word and by his Spirit, that they are children of the Devil who are fulfilling his lusts or desires as opposed to fulfilling the desires of God, then we can properly warn them of not only the consequences of hell, but of the just or righteous consequences of hell. In other words, if they are determined to impenitently continue following the Devil, then God will be just to see that they ultimately follow him into the everlasting fire that Jesus regularly warned of.

Oh. I did not realize you are talking about the unsaved. Though I still disagree. I think most
know their life would be better if only they did not lie cheat and steal, etc. No doubt many
think, "My life would be so much better if I did not have to worry about getting caught for all
the rotten things I've done. No, I will not tell where I buried the bodies." I also disagree about
preaching hell, though I know most probably agree with you, even though if we use Paul as an
example, I suppose many less would. Because:

Consider that Paul told us to follow his example, assuring us he had given us the full council of God
straight from Jesus. Paul said we should do as he did, and how many times in all his books (28% of
the NT) did he preach eternal conscious torment via hellfire damnation? Did he ever even use the
word hell? No, he did not. Paul, who claimed he was caught up into heaven and given the Gospel
directly by Jesus, that all men would be judged according to his gospel, that he had declared to
people the whole counsel of God, that he kept back nothing profitable from the people he taught,
and that he was the apostle to the gentiles... never once used the word hell. Paul uses the Greek
word "Hades" in 1 Corinthians 15:55, where it is translated "grave." (KJV) O death, where is thy sting?
O grave, where is thy victory? In Galatians 1:8, he says: But though we, or an angel from heaven,
preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

There are many other terms which are also equivalent to Hell. So that is just a lame excuse. Did Paul speak about eternal damnation? And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess 2:11.12)

That does not say eternal damnation either. Let's hear your lame excuse...

And while you're conjuring that up, let's have a list of all the times Paul
mentioned an equivalent of hell. I already gave one. Give us all these others.

I get your point, but Paul was preaching to people of that day who already knew the ramifications of straying from God. I believe they already had a good idea of what hell was and the horrible consequences of ending up there.

Unfortunately, people today are not taught the basics of heaven and hell like when I was a child many years ago. Nothing is scaring people into making a decision for Christ. We have to at least tell them what the bible says about sin and the horrific consequences of eternal separation from God.

John 3:16 is for people who already have an idea of what hell will be like. But you can't give the good news to someone who doesn't understand what they're up against. It won't make any sense. After all, if they don't think they need to be saved, a Savior for them is irrelevant.

I'm not suggesting going back to the days of bullhorn evangelism, where I'm shouting at people on the streets and damning them to hell. No, I think a gentle, quiet conversation will do, asking them what they think about hell or the judgment and leading them toward knowing the truth. That's all.

Jesus preached the Kingdom of God. If you want to know what that is, read Luke 4:18. People also need to be convicted that they are sinners in need of a saviour. To only speak of forgiveness of sin leaves the sinner with the question, "what now?" Unless there is conviction of sin, God becomes like a cosmic Father Christmas handing out blessings to those who behave themselves. Neither is correct. God only save sinners. God blesses those who seek His kingdom first. Through tribulation we enter the kingdom of God. Obviously you don't preach all this in a message to sinners. But it has to be preached soon after. So many Christians backslide because they are not taught correctly.

It does not have to say "eternal damnation" since damnation -- by Christ's definition -- is eternal. So that's a really lame excuse.

Damnation by Christ's definition is not eternal conscious torment. Let's hear another of your lame excuses
while you play word games, claiming the soul of man cannot be destroyed even though Scripture plainly
says it can be, so you can get around another plainly stated fact of Scripture that God alone is immortal.
You say souls are imperishable when Scripture says again and again the wicked shall perish, and this is not
a reference to the first death, for we all die that one. Life is contrasted against death. You talk as if God is
powerless over His own creation. No doubt you have a lame excuse for that as well.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

When do the dead receive eternal life that they can experience this eternal conscious torment?

“Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to destruction and
many enter through it, but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

I notice you gave no further examples of Paul speaking on hell. What's your lame excuse for that?

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by
the spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction;
the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life.

The truly righteous man attains life, but He who pursues evil goes to his death.

Now you are flatly calling the Lord Jesus Christ A LIAR. An extremely dangerous position for one calling herself a Christian. So here are the words of Christ to refute your silly and unbiblical ideas:

MARK 9:42-48: HELL IS ETERNAL CONSCIOUS TORMENT AS REVEALED BY CHRIST
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell [GEHENNA], into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell [GEHENNA], into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell [GEHENNA] fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

None of those verses say eternal conscious torment... you really ought to lay off on the false accusations, N6.

According to your beliefs, you are going to burn in hell forever in conscious torment for them.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor
thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable
or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters,
and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.