More on Baptism, simple version

It depends on what you are looking at. My eyes look to Jesus, not at myself. If I look at myself, all I see is defeat and failure, sin and grief. When I look at Jesus, I see that He is all that I must be but cannot be. I have a righteousness that exceeds all other, the righteousness of God in Christ. I am holy because Jesus is holy. I died and my life is hidden in Christ with God, one of my favourite truths in all of God's word. Satan's intent with Christians is to try and get them to consider themselves apart from Christ. He will seek to fill those going well with pride, which leads to a fall. Those who struggle, he will try to drive to despair.

Those who are born again have the ability to sin, but they are not compelled to like unbelievers. There should come a time in the Christian's life when sin is the exception, not the norm. And should we sin, we confess it and get on as if it never happened. That's how God views our sin- He forgets when He forgives.

Hi Gideon,
You said, "The minister preached on the "Jesus plus" gospel that has been common since the earliest days of the church. To claim that someone is not saved unless they are baptized in water is a "Jesus plus" gospel and is false."

Let me ask you two questions: What is the gospel and secondly, do you believe, that in believing the gospel is all we have to do to be saved?

Thank you,
Wayne

Thanks for posting this!

It astounds me that there are still so many that want to attach works to Salvation that is clearly taught in Scripture as being received through Christ, only. It's scary how closely this follows the Torah-Observant model (Judaism) that Paul talks so passionately against. I think that Torah-Observance is the more obvious and grotesque version of this in todays world... but things like "faith + baptism", works-based salvation is just another version of adding "laws" to Christianity.

And though the subject is clearly linked (in my small pea-brain) and requires another thread to cover all this... I wonder what we are to do with Gal. 5:2-4?

2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

I think that we can put the word "works" where he says "circumcision"... what are we to do when people who seem to truly love God, add works? Are they severed from Christ?

It is possible to be saved and born again, yet still be bound by legalism. It is very often the new and zealous believer who is prone to this. Religious pride is strong in many. We can say what we must in order to correct them, but we cannot change them. That's the work of the Holy Spirit working through God's word. Those who reject the truth suffer much. Because they are judgemental, God judges them. God will speak through circumstances if people ignore His word. That is no fun at all. Be assured that God knows how to deal with all those who are His.

I'll cover this in another post, but it really helps to know that there are two salvations. The first is to be born again, so we become spiritually alive for the first time. The second is the salvation of the soul. This is where the problems arise. We are all prone to go by logic and reason, which is fine in natural things but useless in the realm of the Spirit. We are prone to desire self will, which often is in opposition to God's will. So God works in our lives to bring us in complete dependence on Him and in complete harmony with His will. Some cooperate a little. Some cooperate a great deal. Others refuse to accept God's will and suffer accordingly. It's not a matter of heaven or hell, that is settled at the new birth. It is a matter of the Kingdom of God. Where we are placed depends on the choices we make in this life.

Phew. Judson Cornwall was watching a printing press pour out tracts. In the tract, he claimed that his church preached the full gospel. The Lord spoke to him, saying, "You do not preach the full gospel. You do not have the capacity to know the full gospel. Even if you did, your life would not be long enough to preach it". Mr Cornwall dumped all the tracts.

Luke 4:17-19:
'…the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written: “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”…'

The fundamental truth of the gospel is that Lord Jesus gives new life. We are born dead in trespass and sin. Our problem is not our behaviour. That is a consequence of the sinful nature we are born with. Sin is a debt we owe God, so that must be forgiven. We are forgiven when we accept the death of Christ as full payment to God for our sin. We are born again when we receive Christ as saviour. If this truth is preached correctly, we will know forgiveness and experience the new birth simultaneously. This is what most people consider salvation.

This is like opening the door to a vast mansion. We must enter in so that we may enjoy the benefits. No one hands out prizes to spectators. This is the "second salvation", the salvation of the soul. This requires the active cooperation of our will. We are God's workmanship, but He respects our decisions. It helps to think of salvation as deliverance in this context.

We are the sum total of the choices that we make in this life. Some will be saved but have the lowest of places in God's kingdom. Others are willing to pay the price in this life and so be rewarded in the Kingdom of God. To be saved costs nothing. To be spiritual costs everything.

Anglicans pour water on the heads of infants as a form of baptism.

There is no record in scripture of infants being baptized, nor is pouring water on a person's head baptism.

Baptism is a total immersion in water of a believer. Its derived from the Greek word 'baptizo' which means to dip, plunge, immerse and was transliterated, not translated.

Infants can't believe.

So, if you were "baptized" under Anglican auspices, you really weren't baptized and therefore you aren't saved.

Phew. Judson Cornwall was watching a printing press pour out tracts. In the tract, he claimed that his church preached the full gospel. The Lord spoke to him, saying, "You do not preach the full gospel. You do not have the capacity to know the full gospel. Even if you did, your life would not be long enough to preach it". Mr Cornwall dumped all the tracts.

Luke 4:17-19:
'…the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written: “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”…'

The fundamental truth of the gospel is that Lord Jesus gives new life. We are born dead in trespass and sin. Our problem is not our behaviour. That is a consequence of the sinful nature we are born with. Sin is a debt we owe God, so that must be forgiven. We are forgiven when we accept the death of Christ as full payment to God for our sin. We are born again when we accept Christ risen from the dead as our saviour.

"Believing" is not simply accepting the facts of the Bible. Demons believe and they tremble. "Believe in" could be translated "believe into", a much more emphatic statement. I had a work colleague who was also a skydiver. He offered me a free jump. I believed he was genuine. He'd done around 300 jumps, so obviously knew his stuff. I believed, but there was no way I was going to jump out of a perfectly good aircraft with just a bit of cloth to keep me safe. So thanks but no thanks. Faith would close its eyes and jump.

Reminds me of a tragic divorce, and two children that were about to leave our realm of
what little fellowship we had together. So, that is Exactly what I explained to them
before we departed ways. I hope and pray for the one who is still alive (the older one
went to GloryLand) that maybe that is still instilled in that one's life today.

I'll find out in Glory. Amen?

Christians are baptized when they believe on Christ and it is Christ who baptizes with the Holy Spirit not man. Man baptize in the name of the Father, and in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Ghost through preaching or teaching. Not by water. Each has a part in Salvation. The Father grants the repentance necessary. Through the Son, sins are erased. Through the Holy Spirit, the Father and Son reside in our hearts to make us one with the Father and Son, part of the Spiritual body of Christ, adopted into the family of the Father, and filled with love for God and man. It is this love that perfects us so that we can be acceptable when Christ presents us to the Father. When all our thoughts and actions are motivated by love, we will be obeying the Spirit of the Law. If you don't have that love, you probably don't know what I'm talking about.

Faith in the finished work of Jesus results in works of faith (faith without works is dead). Faith first, works following. Works of the Law doesn't cut it because such works are void of Christ/faith in Him. Water baptism can be a work of faith or a work of the Law depending on the motivation of the person's heart.

Water baptism is NOT a work of "the Law". What "Law"? There isn't any. It's a requirement, a command that must be obeyed. It results from your belief and faith upon which you obey in order to achieve the promise.

in order that, (is a term used to introduce a clause or statement of purpose, so the purpose of the preceding statement is shown by the following statement) the purpose for baptism into His death is, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.we too may walk in newness of life.

Water baptism is a Jewish tradition that the Jews still practice today. It started in Leviticus where all the different ways to become spiritually unclean is given. In the middle of all these ways to become unclean is a scripture that explains spiritual cleaning with running water. Today, many Jewish synagogues have pools of water called mikvas where baptism occurs for spiritual cleansing. That is why Jews from all over went to John's baptism. They wanted to become spiritually clean.
John said that he baptized with water, but there will be someone who will be baptizing with the Holy Spirit of God instead of water.
The first Christians were devout Jews who still celebrated Jewish traditions such as the Passover, circumcision, baptism , etc. When they figured out that Gentiles were included in salvation, they at first wanted the Gentiles to follow their same traditions and practices such as circumcision and baptism. They eliminated circumcision for the Gentiles, but the water baptism remained because the tradition was so strong and prevalent. John said that it will be Christ who will be baptizing with the Holy Spirit and not water.
So what we have now is man following John's baptism with water and declaring that that is when the person is born again and that is what all Christians must do. Yes baptism is a Greek word that means water immersion, but Jesus used the word differently in Matt 20: 22 when He told His apostles that He had a baptism that He had to go through. It is God who does the actual baptizing, not man. In the great commission, Jesus tells His Apostles to " Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, ". The baptism occurs automatically by Christ through the Apostle's teaching. He didn't tell them to carry a bucket of water in case no water is available.
Matt 12: 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it; because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and, behold, a greater than Jonah is here.
1 Cor 1:21 For after that, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Cor 1: 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the gospel; not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
1 Cor 1: 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God.

Preaching is the power of God because it is through preaching that God brings the news of salvation to those predestined.

You're delusional. It's a requirement of salvation instituted by the Lord himself.

Mk 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

pretty clear.

belief + baptism = salvation

belief + baptism are inextricably linked together by the conjunction and. Not either separately but both are necessary.
.

In Col 2: 11 you are replacing the fleshly sinful body in which your consciousness resides into the spiritual body of Christ. As part of Christ's body, we get partial credit for all of Christ's experience and reward.

Baptism is water baptism unless otherwise stated. Yes, it's predicate is John's baptism. Nothing changed except being baptized into the Lord for the forgiveness of sins as opposedto John's. The Ephesians in Acts 19 were initially baptized unto John's baptism but were re-baptized into Christ. Was that not in water? Was the Ethiopian eunuch not baptized in water in Acts 8 ?

You're wrong, the scriptures are right and bear out your error.

Respectfully, You must be blind. Paul first tells them that John said that they have to believe in Christ. It says that they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ when they heard this, not after they heard this. They were already baptized with water but apparently that was not enough to be able to receive the Holy Spirit. You get baptized in the name of the Son, not when you get wet, but when you believe. You have to be baptized (without water) in the name of the Son (by believing) in order to get baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit because, as John said in Acts 1: 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. Acts 1: 8 references the great commission which was given by Christ. Acts 1: 8 But ye shall receive power, after the Holy Spirit is come upon you; and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost paart of the earth. It's amazing to me that you think that when they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus they had gone back and got water baptized again. It seems that you are pretty obstinate, so what I'm going to do is pray for your understanding. Also, all the references to water baptism, such as Peter and Timothy and Phillip with the Ethiopian eunuch were done by Jewish Christians who still followed Jewish tradition of spiritual cleansing with water.