The Harvest of the Earth

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Omegatime

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Apr 29, 2023
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#21
Just pondering, what happened to these saints? Since Christ is firstfruits (PLURAL) if He took these with Him to heaven?
Could these be the 24 elders we see in Revelations?

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Good question
 

Omegatime

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Apr 29, 2023
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#22
There are TWO RESURRECTIONS. The "First Resurrection" is for the saved and the "Second Resurrection" is for the damned. They do not occur on the same day or the same hour. What most Christians fail to see is that the First Resurrection is like a Hebrew Harvest, which is in THREE PHASES.

PHASE I: The First Fruits -- this is the resurrection of Christ

PHASE II: The Main Harvest -- this is the resurrection of the Church before the Second Coming of Christ

PHASE III: The Gleanings -- this is the resurrection of the Tribulation martyrs after the Second Coming of Christ

Then there is the resurrection unto damnation after the Millennium. A gap of over 1,000 years.
So Nehemiah--You say 3 resurrections for the righteous and scriptures say 2
 

Omegatime

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#23
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The Lesson of the Fig Tree
32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Sounds like Pentecost to me
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#25
Just pondering, what happened to these saints? Since Christ is firstfruits (PLURAL) if He took these with Him to heaven? Could these be the 24 elders we see in Revelations? Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
We are not told whether these were taken to Heaven, although it would be a good possibility.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,104
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#26
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the
graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;
( resurrection of the dead )

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John 5:28-29
:)
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
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#28
Some scholars say the harvest of the earth is not merely ripe it has literally dried up and withered. So this is not a harvest of good fruit. It is rather like the cutting off of dried up branches that have no life in them. The people it affects are all spiritually dead. They have been deceived by the Antichrist. They are ripe for the harvest of judgment that will come at the end of the tribulation.
 

Walter

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#29
So Walter you are saying the resurrection is at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ?
Revelation 20

Satan Is Bound 1,000 yrs.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Saints Reign 1,000 Yrs.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Satan Is Loosed And Leads Rebellion

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Satan Is Tormented For Ever

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Great White Throne Judgment

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Love, Walter And Debbie
 

Walter

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#30
Some scholars say the harvest of the earth is not merely ripe it has literally dried up and withered. So this is not a harvest of good fruit. It is rather like the cutting off of dried up branches that have no life in them. The people it affects are all spiritually dead. They have been deceived by the Antichrist. They are ripe for the harvest of judgment that will come at the end of the tribulation.
Hi Blade,
Revelation 21:12
This verse indicates there are books we are to be judged out of. Revelation 21:12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
 

montana123

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Oct 9, 2021
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#31
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat upon the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

I say this is a resurrection--anyone agree??
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

There are 2 angels with sickles and the first reaped, and the second gathered and they were thrown in to the great winepress of the wrath of God which happens after the saints are resurrected.

So it seems like it is saying the resurrection of the saints, and then the wrath of God upon the earth.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#32
did you ever notice dear sister that he tells believers about two groups in that chapter one group raised from death at the end

and another group delivered from death by faith because they hear and believe ?

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.



Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming,

and now is, when ( he’s telling us about two times now presently and also it’s coming later )

the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. ( v 24)

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, ( in the future ) in the which all that are in the graves ( resurrection of the dead ) shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24-29‬ ‭

notice there is a group that hears and accepts Jesus judgements presently them, he tells this if they hear and believe him

“hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

later he taught them deeper and Plainer

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a group that hears and believes and lives even as tbier body dies they don’t they go to be with Jesus when their body dies like the thief on the cross did

Then there is another group that is raised up from death and judged by thier deeds because they rejected the atonement of the gospel that remits thier sins and delivers them from death

because we humans are going to be held accountable for everything we do and say we need Jesus in order to be saved because without him shedding his blood and us hearing and believing there’s no remission of sins
 

Walter

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#33
did you ever notice dear sister that he tells believers about two groups in that chapter one group raised from death at the end

and another group delivered from death by faith because they hear and believe ?

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.



Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming,

and now is, when ( he’s telling us about two times now presently and also it’s coming later )

the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. ( v 24)

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, ( in the future ) in the which all that are in the graves ( resurrection of the dead ) shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24-29‬ ‭

notice there is a group that hears and accepts Jesus judgements presently them, he tells this if they hear and believe him

“hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

later he taught them deeper and Plainer

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a group that hears and believes and lives even as tbier body dies they don’t they go to be with Jesus when their body dies like the thief on the cross did

Then there is another group that is raised up from death and judged by thier deeds because they rejected the atonement of the gospel that remits thier sins and delivers them from death

because we humans are going to be held accountable for everything we do and say we need Jesus in order to be saved because without him shedding his blood and us hearing and believing there’s no remission of sins
I was just reading:
The Two Resurrections
There is a serious misconception that there will only be one resurrection. Nowhere in the Scriptures are we taught that! While it is true that all the dead will be raised and judged, neither the place, time, nor the judgments are the same.

Several passages speak of a separate resurrection of believers and unbelievers.

John says there will be two resurrections for two classes of people. One will be raised to “eternal life” while the other to a “resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:28-29).

Luke 14:14 also speaks of a “resurrection of the just.” Since everyone will be resurrected, there has to be a “resurrection of the unjust.” This concept of a separate resurrection of the just and unjust is repeated by Paul in Acts 24:15 when he testified before Felix.

And John makes a clear distinction between the two in Revelation 20:4-5. He says, “… I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and the word of God. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.”

Here, we have the souls of the believing dead waiting for their own resurrection. This takes place after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to the earth.

Love, Walter
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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#34
“He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; the field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:37-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
God is my Father so, it seems to me that I'm gather into the barn after the tares are bundled up and thrown into the furnace.

However, I do not understand why the barn is considered the "rapture" as commonly understood as the whisking away to heaven. To answer, "so that "all things that offend, and them which do iniquity" can continue with business as usual" doesn't seem practical to me in the purpose of the harvest in the first place.

I see this harvest is the bundling up of the "children of the wicked one" in order that the righteous may shine forth unhindered, that is, "(all) that which hinders is taken out of the way," as is written, "all things that offend."

Is this furnace the lake of fire? Not necessarily, as much as it is certainly death (not to be raised again until the 1000 years are finished) and these tares are those living who have not yet died a first death.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#35
I was just reading:
The Two Resurrections
There is a serious misconception that there will only be one resurrection. Nowhere in the Scriptures are we taught that! While it is true that all the dead will be raised and judged, neither the place, time, nor the judgments are the same.

Several passages speak of a separate resurrection of believers and unbelievers.

John says there will be two resurrections for two classes of people. One will be raised to “eternal life” while the other to a “resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:28-29).

Luke 14:14 also speaks of a “resurrection of the just.” Since everyone will be resurrected, there has to be a “resurrection of the unjust.” This concept of a separate resurrection of the just and unjust is repeated by Paul in Acts 24:15 when he testified before Felix.

And John makes a clear distinction between the two in Revelation 20:4-5. He says, “… I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and the word of God. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.”

Here, we have the souls of the believing dead waiting for their own resurrection. This takes place after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to the earth.

Love, Walter
did you notice this part

“Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

( Martha thought her brother would live at the end but few minutes later )

And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:24-27, 43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this

“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or notice this man who’s death is impending moments away

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:42-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are Jesus disciples that follow after him they hear the gospel and accept it he becomes thier lord truly they aren’t perfect but they inderersnd and embrace and accept that he is the lord his word is the final word

They are in this group

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭

this is one group of people they accept his word and then there’s the other group who rejects the judges word

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are two groups of people in creation ne group will hear and believe and embrace the gospel as truth , the other group will reject the gospel as folly and nonsense

In the end all the dead will be raised for judgement the last day

this doesn’t I curse the living who we’re born of the spirit of life they aren’t waiting for a resurrection they already received Jesus in life and passed through death with him in baptism

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When a Christian died they aren’t going to the grave or he’ll they are already with Jesus more alive than we are

The last resurrection is only for the dead all of the dead will be raised up one to everlasting life others to damnation

Christian’s accept life now because they accept his judgements now and repent now .all non believers will be raised in the end and judged by every deed and word without atonement because they rejected him

But as for timing of the resurrection of the dead it’s one event in the end when Jesus returns

“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:15-17‬

see the order jesus returns from heaven with the last trump , the dead in Christ are raised up and those who were still alive are caught up together her with all believers of all time just before the destruction of the rest

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Awee oauo is describing one event but different groups of people is what I’m saying here’s another aspect

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See again the order the trumpet Jesus return the resurrection of the dead and salvstion of believers (even some of the dead ) before wrath comes on the creation

a there’s a resurrection in Christ an escape from death but there’s also a promise that he will raise up all things in the last day then we find out about judgement and the lake of fire

“And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In Christ there’s a promise of everlasting life and then there’s a promise for resurrection of the dead in the end
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#36
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
God is my Father so, it seems to me that I'm gather into the barn after the tares are bundled up and thrown into the furnace.

However, I do not understand why the barn is considered the "rapture" as commonly understood as the whisking away to heaven. To answer, "so that "all things that offend, and them which do iniquity" can continue with business as usual" doesn't seem practical to me in the purpose of the harvest in the first place.

I see this harvest is the bundling up of the "children of the wicked one" in order that the righteous may shine forth unhindered, that is, "(all) that which hinders is taken out of the way," as is written, "all things that offend."

Is this furnace the lake of fire? Not necessarily, as much as it is certainly death (not to be raised again until the 1000 years are finished) and these tares are those living who have not yet died a first death.
yeah in any case we find out when the harvest is

“the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world;

and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:39-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s this same day it’s just offering more details of how

“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:31-32, 34, 41, 46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus and his apostles are always talkin about the same judgement here’s what I mean

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:31‬ ‭

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“ and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30-31‬ ‭

“Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭8:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is this is all about the same event each section about it gives more details and it fully explains it all if we let the other scriptures in

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In doctrine there is going to be a day when Jesus returns from heaven at that time it says he will send his angels to gather everyone before him for judgement done will be saved into the kingdom others will be cast into satans kingdom the lake of fire because they served him in life rather than god

abut my point is all the dofferent language and examples are many witnesses talkin about the same things in this case Jesus return at the end of this world is the subject of we find out what they said about it then we’re hearing Gods witness of the truth and it becomes so plain we can’t mistake it
 

Walter

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#37
did you notice this part

“Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

( Martha thought her brother would live at the end but few minutes later )

And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:24-27, 43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this

“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or notice this man who’s death is impending moments away

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:42-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are Jesus disciples that follow after him they hear the gospel and accept it he becomes thier lord truly they aren’t perfect but they inderersnd and embrace and accept that he is the lord his word is the final word

They are in this group

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭

this is one group of people they accept his word and then there’s the other group who rejects the judges word

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are two groups of people in creation ne group will hear and believe and embrace the gospel as truth , the other group will reject the gospel as folly and nonsense

In the end all the dead will be raised for judgement the last day

this doesn’t I curse the living who we’re born of the spirit of life they aren’t waiting for a resurrection they already received Jesus in life and passed through death with him in baptism

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When a Christian died they aren’t going to the grave or he’ll they are already with Jesus more alive than we are

The last resurrection is only for the dead all of the dead will be raised up one to everlasting life others to damnation

Christian’s accept life now because they accept his judgements now and repent now .all non believers will be raised in the end and judged by every deed and word without atonement because they rejected him

But as for timing of the resurrection of the dead it’s one event in the end when Jesus returns

“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:15-17‬

see the order jesus returns from heaven with the last trump , the dead in Christ are raised up and those who were still alive are caught up together her with all believers of all time just before the destruction of the rest

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Awee oauo is describing one event but different groups of people is what I’m saying here’s another aspect

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See again the order the trumpet Jesus return the resurrection of the dead and salvstion of believers (even some of the dead ) before wrath comes on the creation

a there’s a resurrection in Christ an escape from death but there’s also a promise that he will raise up all things in the last day then we find out about judgement and the lake of fire

“And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In Christ there’s a promise of everlasting life and then there’s a promise for resurrection of the dead in the end
Yes
 

Komentaja

Active member
Jul 29, 2022
450
235
43
#38
Are the plagues in chronological order? 1st seals, then trumpets, then vials?

Because to me the 7th trumpet and the seal in which the stars fall is pretty much the second coming in two different angles. The vials and trumpets are also really similar, in trumpets though its only a 3rd of creatures in the water that die, in the vials its all.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,635
5,899
113
#39
Concerning the term “ Born again “ it seems to me to be a concept beginning or at least spoken Of here in this vein to summarize this process

“Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭36:25-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He saw that man had all been proven corrupt at thier heart mind and core and so he promised to re create them

make them clean from sin like a newborn child like Adam before the fall innocent , and also circumcise the sinfulness of thier heart and create new hearts and minds in them putting his spirit in them

sort of a re creation of man from corrupt sinners at heart changing then over into those who reflect Christs spirit and actions through the faith of discipleship

See the process ?

“that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


First we have to be born in Christ as babes later we can grow up in the new image it’s the word of truth that gives us new life

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,( this is where the term comes from ) he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭

In spirit

It is the spirit that quickeneth; ( gives life )

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

And in truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We worship God by the things Jesus taught us in other words

“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-23, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I believe is a child has to be born before they can learn right and wrong we are being re born or re created into Jesus image now by faith this is what th term means to me we are born like this

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then in time we are called to grow up because a fourty year old can’t still be a babe and live as one it’s like life we learn and grow but being born comes first after we’re born we grow up d become capable and responsible nd accountable with maturity

Importantly this is only my opinion and nothing more official