Faith alone, faith plus works? Something is missing in this discussion

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#1
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
3,164
113
#1
A few years ago, God asked me a question. He said, "How were you saved?" I replied, "By grace". He said, "What saved you yesterday? "I thought for a moment, and said, "Grace". He said, "And what saves you today?" The answer was obvious. I am saved by grace every day. So are you.

The problem with emphasising faith is that it puts the attention on us. When we focus on the grace of God, we are looking at Jesus who loved us and gave Himself for us. Don't kid yourselves, no one has faith unless God gives it to us. Faith comes through hearing the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17). It is no coincidence when someone preaches the gospel to us. God arranges the time and place for us to hear the Word. Our part is to respond to the preaching of the gospel.

God is not obliged to save anyone. All have sinned and fall short of His glory. Yet His great love activates His grace and multitudes have been saved. Why some and not others is a mystery. That anyone is saved is a miracle.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#3
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#3
Gideon300 said:
Don't kid yourselves, no one has faith unless God gives it to us.
Click to expand...
The real issue is HOW? If it is a gift of God grace, then it must be given to absolutely everyone (John 3:17). But if it is the result of the preaching of the Gospel, then the Gospel must be preached to "every creature". Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel).
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#4
Feb 11, 2013
1,171
181
63
#4
Nice Op.

And I would like to add that if one professes to have faith it will be evident by the works they do. If one says they have faith then they will show good works. Not that the good works justifies the believer, it is merely evidence of the faith that one professes to have. This is a brief summary of James 2
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#5
Apr 21, 2021
8,319
3,619
113
#5
Gideon300 said:
The problem with emphasising faith is that it puts the attention on us.
Click to expand...
I'm still looking for an answer to this question: If my faith is in the Lord, how does this put attention on me?
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#7
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
3,164
113
#7
Nehemiah6 said:
The real issue is HOW? If it is a gift of God grace, then it must be given to absolutely everyone (John 3:17). But if it is the result of the preaching of the Gospel, then the Gospel must be preached to "every creature". Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel).
Click to expand...
Everyone has a measure of faith (Romans 12:3). All of creation declares the gospel (Romans 1:18-32). Why does God's grace has to be given to everyone? (I'm not disagreeing, asking the question). I don't believe John 3:17 addresses that.

I had a discussion decades ago with a Methodist church moderator. He said that as long as you were sincere, God accepts any religion. He posed the question about those who never hear the gospel. I had no answer, which troubled me. I asked the Lord what was the truth. He reminded me of Romans 1. Now creation does not talk about the Saviour, Lord Jesus, but it does tell the world that there is a God. The Lord said to me that if anyone cried out to Him, He would find a way to save that person. That is grace.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#8
Apr 21, 2021
8,319
3,619
113
#8
Next I'm waiting for someone to say Abraham shouldn't have believed God. Too much attention focused on himself.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#9
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
3,164
113
#9
ResidentAlien said:
I'm still looking for an answer to this question: If my faith is in the Lord, how does this put attention on me?
Click to expand...
You said yourself: "my" faith. Galatians 2:20 literally says this:
"I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.

Faith originates with Lord Jesus. Mark 11:22 says "Have faith from God" in the Greek. I'm not at all knocking faith, it is the heart of Christianity. I do get perturbed about the arguments around faith. Many Christians make faith a work, or like to add to it. No one can add anything to grace!

I don't know why the translators mess with the wording. Galatians 2:20 is correctly translated in the KJV. I don't use the KJV generally, but it gets Galatians 2:20 right.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#10
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#10
Gideon300 said:
Why some and not others is a mystery.
Click to expand...
If your line of thinking forces you to declare a "mystery", you may want to rethink your assertion.

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1st Timothy 2:4)
"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." (Jeremiah" 29:13)
"I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me." (Proverbs 8:17)

There is no mystery. You are simply misunderstanding the heart of God.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#11
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#11
Gideon300 said:
A few years ago, God asked me a question. He said, "How were you saved?" I replied, "By grace". He said, "What saved you yesterday? "I thought for a moment, and said, "Grace". He said, "And what saves you today?" The answer was obvious. I am saved by grace every day. So are you.

The problem with emphasising faith is that it puts the attention on us. When we focus on the grace of God, we are looking at Jesus who loved us and gave Himself for us. Don't kid yourselves, no one has faith unless God gives it to us. Faith comes through hearing the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17). It is no coincidence when someone preaches the gospel to us. God arranges the time and place for us to hear the Word. Our part is to respond to the preaching of the gospel.

God is not obliged to save anyone. All have sinned and fall short of His glory. Yet His great love activates His grace and multitudes have been saved. Why some and not others is a mystery. That anyone is saved is a miracle.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter that God's Grace Saved us as much as it matters that our Faith keeps us in God.

7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you


^
what happens IF you do not abide in Jesus?

Emphasis is on US to ABIDE in Him.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#12
Apr 21, 2021
8,319
3,619
113
#12
Gideon300 said:
You said yourself: "my" faith.
Click to expand...
Not buying it. If I said "I have faith in myself," then I could see how the focus has shifted from God to me. But simply saying my faith is in the Lord in no way implies I think I can save myself. You've taken some strange idea and turned it into a way for people to feel guilty for no reason.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#13
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
3,164
113
#13
ResidentAlien said:
Next I'm waiting for someone to say Abraham shouldn't have believed God. Too much attention focused on himself.
Click to expand...
You are a bit touchy. I don't know why. God sought out Abraham, not vice versa. That's grace. Abraham lied to save his skin, handing his wife over to Pharoah. God punished Pharoah, not Abraham. That's mercy and grace.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#14
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#14
Gideon300 said:
Many Christians make faith a work, or like to add to it. No one can add anything to grace!
Click to expand...
Does my acceptance of God's grace count as a work? Or does God accept His grace for His chosen few on their behalf?
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#16
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
3,164
113
#16
The_Watchers_2017 said:
Doesn't matter that God's Grace Saved us as much as it matters that our Faith keeps us in God.

7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you


^
what happens IF you do not abide in Jesus?

Emphasis is on US to ABIDE in Him.
Click to expand...
There are two salvations, the salvation of the spirit (to be born again) and the salvation of the soul. Jesus gives the answer. If we fail to abide in Him, our prayers will not be answered and we will be fruitless.

You miss the point entirely. Faith originates with Jesus. Our role is to exercise the faith that He gives us. That's what abiding is. Satan assaults the Christian with doubt and unbelief, just as he did Adam in Eden. We must choose who we will believe.

The older I get as a Christian, the more I am aware of my need for Jesus and God's grace. I depend on God's faithfulness to me. That's grace.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#17
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
3,164
113
#17
Lamar said:
Does my acceptance of God's grace count as a work? Or does God accept His grace for His chosen few on their behalf?
Click to expand...
What does that mean? Grace is like a vast ocean of God's goodness, love, deliverance, provision and protection. Grace prevails when we do not deserve it. No, grace by definition is not a work. It is God doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves. Grace is for every moment of every day, not just when we are first born again. Accepting or rejecting is a choice, not a work.

As to the elect, I don't know how it all works for sure. So I'll pass on that one.
 
M

Michael68

Banned
#19
Aug 5, 2023
75
6
8
#19
NightTwister said:
God's sovereign grace and my personal responsibility are not in conflict with one another.
Click to expand...
I have to be honest, if personal responsibility includes trusting in God's grace through faith in Christ I take that responsibility, however, to my shame I have taken little other personal responsibility. Am I still saved? I have much proof I am, but my rational mind cannot comprehend why I would be
 
NightTwister

NightTwister

Well-known member
#20
Jul 5, 2023
2,105
793
113
65
Colorado, USA
#20
Michael68 said:
I have to be honest, if personal responsibility includes trusting in God's grace through faith in Christ I take that responsibility, however, to my shame I have taken little other personal responsibility. Am I still saved? I have much proof I am, but my rational mind cannot comprehend why I would be
Click to expand...
That you ask the question shows evidence of the Holy Spirit working on you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.