Faith alone, faith plus works? Something is missing in this discussion

its so clear to see. some people just have backwards thinking.

Now we are really stretching it. This is a totally different issue, as you should already know. Here the twelve tribes of Jacob would be deemed as the chosen nation of God. What you and others fail to understand is that in spite this the nation of Israel -- by and large -- excluded itself from God's grace and mercy.

ROMANS 10: A DISOBEDIENT AND GAINSAYING PEOPLE
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

So throwing out Scriptures without a proper understanding of grace does not help anyone. We need to take everything into account.

I strongly disagree with your comment here ------I don't think you fully understand what Grace entails

What your missing is -----Grace can be a Gift -------

Strong's #5485: charis (pronounced khar'-ece)

from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).
what is due to grace
a gift of grace

I say -------Salvation is a Gift from God who is full of Grace -----

Grace in the New Testament is a PERSON ---Not a Thing -------as it says here ---Jesus is full of Grace (Favor and loving kindness )------and because He is full of Grace He makes available to us what we do not deserve ----Salvation ---but we have free will to accept the gift offered or refuse it ------

That doesn't change the meaning of Grace --it is still offered as an undeserved gift to all who want to take advantage of it ------but our Free will is there to make our choice -------

John 1:14

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.


So God IN HIS GRACE ____MADE AVAILABLE _____SALVATION for all who will Receive it ------

Read Romans 9. It has all the context you need.

TL;DR -- No need to add to what's there.

You are the one who should be reading and UNDERSTANDING what it teaches. You are actually quite confused. Let's hope you do not confuse others.

I already understand it. Clearly.

Didn't read to long --The Big

Statement


EXCUSES ___EXCUSES ____EXCUSES ----

Weird. Everything you need is in Romans 9.

Now that is nitpicking pedantry. God could have destroyed the whole human race and started again. That way He would not have needed to send Jesus to die for us. God owes humanity nothing. We owe Him everything.

Started what again? Obligating Himself again, after finking on His first obligation?
You're hypothesizing.
The historical reality is that He SAID He would save people; and having said it, He obligated Himself to do exactly what He said.

Of course He doesn't owe humanity anything because He pre-paid the price. The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world before humanity existed.

"Obligated" and "owe" aren't the same thing.

Yes the part of the hearer is to listen and walk in the newness of life . Hallelujah! Apostle outlines the walk of the Chosen .2 Peter 1:5-8,10(KJV) And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

So correct my brother , and through even the disobedience of Israel the whole world is blessed . Jesus himself spoke to the Pharisees.
Matthew 21:43-44(KJV) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Romans 9:16 (KJV)

The "it" isn't the eternal salvation of an individual; it's the temporary setting aside of Israel for service. Paul could wish himself accursed for the sake of the Israelites until the cows came home, but that would just have been his futile willing & running.

Here is God's willing & running:
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:32 (KJV)

KJVO is the literal definition of the circular reasoning fallacy. Often, those who cling to it, completely misunderstand what scripture is saying as you do here.

Haven;t read all of your posts on this topic so have you shown in any of your post that you have a clear understanding of what ROMANS 9 is saying ????????????????????????----

I would be interested to read your interpretation of what you PERCEIVE that ROMANS 9 is saying to you -----as where you are in your Faith walk with Christ -------as the Holy spirit will only reveal what knowledge you can handle ----

------so what is your take on this Chapter 9 in Romans ??????

I will wait for your reply ------all you keep saying that I have read is ---Everything you need is in Romans 9.

So what is it that you need people to know in this Chapter of Romans 9 ----what are you trying to get across ----

So what he is trying to get across is that you should ignore Romans 10 and 11, and also the earlier chapters. That will certainly clarify Romans 9 -- a one horse race.

Troubling statements for me "God is not obliged to save anyone. All have sinned and fall short of His glory. Yet His great love activates His grace and multitudes have been saved. Why some and not others is a mystery. That anyone is saved is a miracle. "

"God could have destroyed the whole human race and started again. That way He would not have needed to send Jesus to die for us. God owes humanity nothing. We owe Him everything. "

Within the 1st post I would ask Him "Can you give me chapter and verse". what saves me today? For by grace you have been saved through faith. Have been not day to day that is not written. Like the song right now I KNOW YOU WONT LET ME GO! Now faith.. we all have been given the measure of faith and if we had the faith the size of a mustered seed we can tell the tree to be picked up and cast into the sea and it must obey YOU! We are created in the image of the great I AM! We are joint heirs Christ.

There was no other thoughts ideas. He loves world so much.. He left heaven became His own creation to take its punishment's. It pleased GOD what happen to Christ. "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."

Dude... question marks.
I've never known a time when I wasn't a Christian. I've spent years studying Church History, Apologetics, and Theology.
Romans chapter 9 is God telling us through Paul that while all were all going to perish due to sin, He saved some through His Grace.

You shouldn't bear false witness against your neighbor. Especially not your brother in Christ. Oh wait, you consider all Calvanists to be heretics. Never mind. Still a neighbor though...