And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. 2 John 1:6 KJV

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Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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#21
How did Jesus Christ love us?
We are to love one another the same.
“As I have loved you”
Here's something I posted a while ago as an example of the differences between the old covenant and the new:

It is helpful for us to compare between the old commandment and the new. The reference to a “new” commandment by implication implies that there was an “old” commandment. So what is the “old” commandment?

The “old” commandment is found in Matthew, chapter 22:34-36, “Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: ‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’”

Now, you’ll note that. Indeed, a lawyer, under the law could only ask Him a question about the law. He couldn’t ask Him about the new commandment; he was unaware of the new commandment. So the context of this question and the answer, both have to do with the law. What is the greatest commandment?

Matthew 22:37-40Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’” (Inserted-Matthew 22:37-40)

His answer, summarized the teachings of the Law and the Prophets and in this, His answer is solidly to be found in the Law. This is the very thing that is to be replaced. But today most people think if you keep the 10 commandments and if you love your neighbor as yourself then you have done everything that God could have required. Now if you look at these two commandments you will immediately observe that they are foundationally different. Why? Because the standard is different.

In the first case the “new” commandment has this as the standard: “…as I have loved you, so you should love one another.” The “old” commandment has this: “With all of your capacity to love so you should love God and so you should love one another.” Well you will notice that the standard of the “old” commandment is, of course, appropriate for the Law because the Law can only require you to do as much as it is possible for you to do. Objectively and theoretically it is possible to keep the Law because it does not require any more than all that you are capable of doing. It doesn’t say, “All that you feel like doing,” nor does it say, “All that you want to do.” It says, “All that you are capable of doing.” So when the Law says, “Love the Lord your God with all of your heart...” all of your heart means all of the capacity that lies within you to do. All, in fact, means all. It doesn’t say, “All that you want to do, all that you feel like doing, all that on certain occasions you may be inclined to do.” No, it requires all. So in that sense, the Law and the standard of the Law is not haphazard but it does point out that it is all that is humanly possible. Furthermore, the Law was designed to keep the Jews alive. God could not ask a man to give up his own life under the Law. There was no promise of a new life in the Law. To ask a man to give up his life would be to make the Law unrighteous. A man cannot give up his own life and simultaneously keep his life.

The standard is appropriate for the Law because if the Law asks of anyone more than all then by the existence of the Law you’ve been made lawless. In other words: if it is all plus 10% then the Law makes you lawless because it has exceeded your capacity to respond. But the Law begins and ends with what you can do. And it has a lesser standard for loving your neighbor. Its objective standard regarding loving God is all that you are capable of doing. Its lesser standard in regards to loving your neighbor is, “…as you love yourself.” The presumption is that you love yourself pretty thoroughly. Now what if you didn’t love yourself? The Law simply requires you to love your neighbor in the same fashion, to the same extent.

What is the standard of the new and how is that different? The standard of the new is: “…as I have loved you.” Who is the “I” that is the measurement of this standard? The “I”, of course, is Christ, the one speaking. He is also the Living God. So the standard is: as Jesus has loved us so we are to love one another. Now what if you don’t love yourself? Well that is an irrelevant standard. He didn’t say, “as you love your neighbor, so you should love one another…” or “as I have occasionally loved you so you must love each other.” “As I have loved you” means “I, as God, have loved you perfectly; therefore I require you to love as God loves.” This is a fascinating standard because it’s the same standard for God as it is for man. The standard of love is the same for God as it is for man. That standard of the new commandment makes God and man equal on the matter of love. That’s an incredible observation. On the matter of love, God and man are equal.

Now don’t take my observation for that. Look at this: this is from Matthew5:48, Jesus is speaking. Now this verse of Scripture is very troubling. Matthew 5:48 says, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” What we’ve done is we’ve read that verse out of its context and we have inferred meanings to it that it does not mean. For example we’ve inferred that it means “be perfect in power” and so people come up with thoughts like, “if you’re not healed it’s your fault; you don’t have enough faith, you do not exercise enough power.” So if things go badly it’s your fault. God has given you all power, God has given you all faith, and so on, and if you do these things less than perfectly then it is your fault. Well that’s garbage because God would not require us to be perfect in power, whatever power we have is His power given to us, and no one is made "all powerful". Therefore we could only operate in whatever measures of power He has given us. This Scripture is not about being perfect in power; it’s about being perfect in love.

Note the context: jump back to verse 43 “‘You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies…” (so the context is love) “..and pray for those who persecute you…” Now why should you do that and how is this different? You must do that so that you can be sons of your Father in heaven, "..that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” It means that just as natural children resemble their natural parents and the nature of natural children is like the nature of their natural parents, so the nature of the children of God is like the God Who is perfect in love. So it’s not surprising to us that the same standard would apply to God as would apply to us… in the matter of love. So that you will be as sons of your Father in heaven.

And then He gives us some examples of how he loves His enemies and does good for those who persecute Him. “He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous…”. Then He contrasts and He says, “If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even the pagans do that?” In short, to be like your Father in heaven it means that you do not simply love your enemies as you love yourselves or you love your neighbor as yourself; it is that you would love your enemy by preferring them over your own life and in that sense, and within that context it says, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

The “old” commandment, under the Law, basically required you to love the extent of your capacity to love… love God as much as you are able and to love your neighbor as you are inclined to love yourself. That’s the “old” commandment. The “new” commandment says, “…as I have loved you.” And it establishes Christ as the standard for love. Christ being the Living God, the standard is the same for God as the standard is for man. Now the reason why the standard is the same is because, according to 2 Peter 1:4, the intent of God is that we be made to be partakers of the divine nature…"

“Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” and "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His nature..."

The divine nature, the nature of God, is to love and to love perfectly; to love by preferring the life of another over your own life, to give up your life to God so that God would live through you. Now what’s left unanswered for us is: why? And furthermore, how does this prepare us to overcome the evil one?

Revelation 12:11 “They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.”) In this respect we are meant to be exactly as God—perfect in love—the same standard that applies to God applies to us and this is the measure that displays the reality that we are partakers of the divine nature.

By this it is abundantly clear that the “new” covenant is not simply the “old” covenant rehashed. It has the elements of a totally different standard, the same standard for God and man.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
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#24
So, are you saying that Christ loved us by being obedient to us?
I think he’s getting at this type of thought

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: ( that’s what he did and how we know)

and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. ( saying I love everyone isnt love acting on that compassion is love)

And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.( Jesus taught us how to love people his way in the gospel )

And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19, 22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
447
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#25
I think he’s getting at this type of thought

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: ( that’s what he did and how we know)

and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. ( saying I love everyone isnt love acting on that compassion is love)

And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.( Jesus taught us how to love people his way in the gospel )

And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19, 22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Maybe he should have talked about how Christ loves the Church before segueing into obedience?
While I agree that obedience is part and parcel with following God, these implications that salvation requires works is frustrating.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
#26
Next will be, don’t breathe, it’s work.
Low pickens just means less work, same fruit.
my point lol eas that you made a baaaahhahhhahhd joke about the sheep hahahaha

p.s. legal humor disclaimer :,the forementioned baaahaahad is my attempt to type sheep noises for comedic effect. Regarding prior complaints gs response to said “ joke “ about the sheep
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,783
624
113
#27
What is love?

John 15:12 KJV
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Great question. I do love how some made us laugh thanks.

But are you asking for the classic bible answer or what is love to you? Fact if you stand back and read most of the posts (over all on any believers forum) you find we all know the biblical answer yet we see many do not show or live that biblical answer. Yes we can post in great length what "love" according to the bible is yet in a few posts later we see it is not what we live. We boast we show off our self not boasting in the lord OT.

Its Christ .. to just think about this I get lost like I am sure you all do. That He that made ALL left heaven became His creation who hated Him yet became the servant of all. He who has no limit to power and glory look what He did and took on Himself what ever one of us has done. Its has always been in me yet have no always lived it but to treat others as I would want to be treated. At the time 13 I never new that was in the bible. Shows He does write His ways on our hearts. Its me wanting not because I was told to IF I love Jesus but to want to love others to give to help and never expect anything ever in return. To always give.. even if it means ALL I have since I this is not where I store my treasure. One must know this.

Are we truly loving Him if we obey only because He told us to? For me that is not love a slave does this. I look to Christ and...oooh ok I see that's how its done. All in all He knows I know it's never me all Him who gets all the praise all the glory and all the "thanks". Man we soak up that praise and thanks don't we. Love you Jesus
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
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Australia
#31
Acts 5:32 KJV
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,946
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#32
Today this is a hard one to sell. Anything about obedience it will turn into "WAAAH salvation by works WAAAAH"
Salvation isn't by works but works are not a bad things.
If your works are motivated by love you are not doing anything wrong.
If your works are motivated by rewards or gaining salvation by your own effort you have already failed.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,946
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Australia
#33
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 3:3-8
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Loving Jesus = keeping His commandments.

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.