"Is There More Than one Gospel?...

Could someone today get saved by hearing John the Baptist? The disciples gospel given to them before the cross?

I suggest there is no more revelation from God before the end. We're just waiting on our death or Jesus to come back. Game over either way.

There are a lot of evangelicals who focus on the great commission who want to evangelize the world, believing it is a part of the fulfillment of this verse.

Consider this quote: "Practically, unless something changes, this means unreached people will be born, live, and die without ever hearing the Gospel." from https://radical.net/article/great-c...nd places are,without ever hearing the Gospel.

Do you disagree, factually, with this idea, and argue that every single tribesman on earth has heard the Gospel in every jungle, in every Muslim village?

I agree, man can not usher in the kingdom.

Excellent, and also it is amazing how experts of end-times eschatology will
ignore this obvious Scripture:


Finishing end-times prophecies up, eh?:
Of course, before that was The End of our Gospel Of Grace, at our [ pre-trib ]
Departure To Heaven, making way for the prophetic program to continue
with Israel, and the previous everlasting gospel of the kingdom!

Amen.

Precious friend, of course there is another kind suggestion, from Peter:

Wait! What's this? [ After Acts 9, Paul, the First, saved By Grace ], God Is
Now Going To Save The Jews, "Even as they [ the gentiles, were Saved! ]"?

Musta been a Different gospel before then, eh?

So, feelings "come and go," However, The Word Of God __________?

Amen.

Ok, fair enough, and also I appreciate your humility to "hear and learn" - so,
that would be either agree or disagree [ no debate needed for ]:

Great GRACE Departure! , Correct?

Amen.

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking me. I read the post the link brings me to, and see a whole list of scripture, but am not getting exactly what you are asking if I agree or disagree with. Great Grace Departure, is not something I'm sure what it is. What I think you're asking is, are the Christians going to avoid the judgement? I'm not sure, but if that's it then yes, I do believe Jesus gave the Christians a way out of the 70 AD end of the age when He destroyed His temple and ended the Mosaic age that pointed to Jesus. Just like Luke warns in Luks 21:20-22

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

And we know that the Christians fled to Pella after Rome was surrounded, and then for reasons nobody knows they pulled back just long enough for them to flee. There are a few historical sources that support this (not saying that proves anything, but does support what Jesus said would happen).

If this isn't what you were asking about then my bad, just ask me what you were and I'll answer the best I can.

I wasn't trying to say I wouldn't have a conversation about this subject at all with what I was saying in that post, it's just that I'm not going to jump on any back and forth topical, generic, "team slogans" battle. I guess I made it sound a little too restrictive, but I don't mind discussing any part of it seriously. I want to share, just not get caught up "teaching" at each other, past each other, not listening. I would be more than happy to talk to you about anything you want to bring up, ask, or share with this respectful tone. I appreciate the way you showed respect in your reply, I don't want to come off like I will only share and never interact or "defend" my position. I've just found myself in too many pointless ,"talking past each other", conversations and am trying not to do that anymore.

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:20-21, 25-28‬ ‭

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Could you please point me to the book and chapter where Paul first preach this "other" gospel?

1 Corinthians 15:3-4

Amen.

That is a great passage to show what is the gospel. When Jesus sent out the 12/11 to proclaim the gospel, we see they did it right away. God shows us the gospel the they proclaimed in Acts 2. Later when we see they are preaching the word, we know what they are preaching.

When Jesus sent Paul out to proclaim this other gospel, when did he first proclaim it? What did he preach to convert the sinner BEFORE he later wrote to them?

When you say, Paul the first saved by Grace, I dont understand your meaning to me it makes no sense in the context of two gospels, if Paul was the first saved by Grace then how was anyone saved before hand, I mean are not all are saved by Gods Grace for there is no other way.

Is there an example of anyone who is not saved by Grace can you provide an example?

And if all are saved by Grace then are not all are saved by believing in the redemption provided by God at Calvary, the Same Good news given to all men whereby they might be saved.

The only difference being, Abraham knew God would provide a mechanism to save, and by faith he believed in Gods Grace from afar, same as Job who believed in an resurrection etc etc yet the difference for us is we can look back and see the mechanism that God provided and by faith we believe in and are recipients of Gods Grace that was provided towards us, which is the same gospel just more revealed.

In fact Peter refers to what Paul writes as being one and the same as his. Also would you agree with this, If Abraham was resurrected right now in the same sense Lazarus was, (hypothetically just for example) We know he would already believe in and follow Christ, he would rejoice to know His day had come, and would follow Paul's and Peters epistles of grace for he already did, Gods character is the same today yesterday and forever he does not change.

Makes me wanna break out in song, standing on the promises of God,

You are correct. Paul was NOT the first one saved by grace. See Hebrews 11 and it was Abel, the son of Adam and Eve, who was the first saved by grace. Since Adam and Eve are not mentioned in that chapter, we need not speculate. So starting with Abel, all those listed there (and many not by name) were saved (justified) by grace through faith.

Did John the Baptist believe in God? Did the thief on the cross believe in God? Do you believe in God? I don't understand why the need to understand all the gospel in its completed form today is necessary for salvation, If there is a lost tribe in Africa or the Amazon jungle, that have had no outside contact for 2500 years yet they believe in God as Job did, they offered sacrifices and believed God was coming one day to rescue them from death, would that count as faith? Could a heart with good conscience towards God still be saved or is salvation really that different today.

I mean look at the religious of Israel at the time of Christ, they wrongly thought the law could save them, and totally misunderstood God which is why they did not recognise Him when He was before them in person, If they truly believed in God they would have believed Jesus. They basically tried to put rules and regulations on faith and then people are like "ah I have to do this to follow God" and the blind end up leading the blind.

It still happens in Christendom today, the complication of a simple gospel seems to make more sense to some, for how can salvation be so easy, so free, so they make there own phylacteries and rules for salvation, like water baptism is necessary for salvation etc etc.

Not trying to be offensive as I dont really understand the two gospel or hyper grace view, but let me ask, in their Churches do you have to understand it or know it to be saved?

Im sure Paul would be horrified if he thought he was taking attention away from Christ and upon himself in fact did he not rebuke people in one of his letters for saying they follow the gospel presented by Cephas or Appollas or Paul? Then is that not exactly what two gospel people are doing saying they follow Paul?

Also did Paul not say, if anyone comes even an angel or even we (meaning Paul or the other apostles) preaching a different gospel then let him be accursed, yet are people not saying he is teaching a different way of salvation or a different gospel? Is this not doing exactly what Paul is warning about, Is this not repeating the religious mistakes of man right down through our entire history?

If there are two different gospels then either Paul or Peter should be accursed? or is it ok to have different gospels?

I believe I am a sinner in need of Salvation, I believe God came down in the form of man and took my punishment on the cross at Calvary nothing I could do to make that payment myself I mean how can I take Gods punishment that I deserve yet have eternal life it would be a contradiction. I believe Jesus has done something so great for me, I owe Him so much for everything which leads to good works following Him, and if it wasn't for my still sinful nature I would do more so there is still that normal feeling of inadequacy.

Ill stop there im just trying to present the gospel the one and only gospel that saves, The one and the same gospel in the old testament that points to the unblemished lamb right through to the one gospel Paul and Peter and John have presented there is no other way to be saved than by believing in God which is believing that he will or has provided the WAY to eternal life.

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.

I do like how also after reminding us in Eph 4 of the oneness or sameness of belief, to keep context it points out that the Lord also descended into the earth and presented himself and the Gospel to those in Abrahams bosom but that is another story.

Answer me this:
Abel was saved by grace?
Was Abel part of the body of Christ?
Was Abel born again?
Was Abel absent from the body and present with the Lord?
Was Abel washed by the blood of Jesus?
Was Abel a new creature in Christ?
Did Abel have the sealing of the Holy Spirit?

If Abel was not these things, then he was not saved by grace like you and I after the cross.

Abel was saved by grace? ABSOLUTELY
Was Abel part of the body of Christ? EVENTUALLY
Was Abel born again? EVENTUALLY
Was Abel absent from the body and present with the Lord? HE IS NOW IN HEAVEN
Was Abel washed by the blood of Jesus? ABSOLUTELY
Was Abel a new creature in Christ? EVENTUALLY
Did Abel have the sealing of the Holy Spirit? EVENTUALLY

What many Christians fail to see (because all this is not explicitly stated) is that the OT saints were also given the gift of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (it could not be otherwise). They became a part of the Body of Christ. They are called "the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT". They are also placed alongside the NT saints in Hebrews 12. So when Christ brings all the saints who have passed on (OT or NT) for the Resurrection of the saints there is no distinction.

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Heb 11;40) Now since they have been "made perfect" we need to ask ourselves at which point in time this happened. And the only biblical answer is on the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was poured out.

So, by your answers, Abel did not have what we have when he died. He was not saved. If he were saved, if his sins were washed away when he died, he would have been present with the Lord upon death.

We have something better! Absolutely! We have something they did not have! Abel did not trust in the cross to be saved. That is the gospel message. It is only through believing that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and rose again. If you claim Abel was saved, you are the one preaching another gospel unto salvation.

The cross is the central and pivotal point of all creation, everything goes out from this point, we were after the cross and washed by the blood of the lamb, to me your perspective is not quite right, by that I mean, the questions are wrong instead of saying was you should say will!

Will Abel be a part of the body of Christ?
Will Abel be washed by the blood of Jesus?
Will Abel be a new creature in Christ?

If he is not going to be then he is damned, for their is only one way all men can be saved. And that of course is through Jesus

Did Abel think it will happen one day, absolutely... Adam and Eve named Cain the promised one, they knew a promised one was to come to set things right, they offered sacrifices they knew a death/sacrifice was to be involved, etc etc

They did not know the Exact mechanism, just that God was going to provide a way to bring about an end to death and give eternal life. They knew of a tree that provided life etc etc They knew a branch of righteousness was to come etc etc

If Jesus is the Mechanism for eternal physical life then those who died before the cross had to wait until Jesus came as the sacrifice, but they could rejoice and be secure in the fact they knew it was coming, we too are secure in the fact it has happened and will also obtain eternal life. The only difference to me is how many facts we know, the old testament saints knew there was a coming Redeemer we know who the Redeemer is.

Which is why the Old testament saints had to wait in a holding cell so to speak until the day Jesus came and preached the good news to those in prison, (revealed the payment for their sins is now payed for in full, and follow me my faithful friends up onto high)and opened the doors and led them out.

Same Gospel, Same Jesus, was concealed now revealed

Not one OT saint trusted in a future cross. That dog won’t hunt.

What I am saying is that there is only one gospel unto salvation, and that is through believing Christ died for sins, was buried, and rose again. If Abel was saved by believing something other than that, then that’s another gospel.

Being in Abraham’s bosom is not eternal salvation. They were safe from God’s wrath, but not saved as you and I know salvation.