God's Intervention?

Musicmaster · Oct 16, 2023

Huh?

There are some hyper-charismatics out there who teach about God's alleged "intervening power."

What is that? How does that work? Where does the Bible elude to such a power that actually needs to be exercised at all by the Most High?

I found an instance where the word "intervene" exists in English translations, specifically in the NIV for Isaiah 59:16, which is not a reference to God at all, and the NKJV for Zephaniah 2:7, which IS a reference to an act by God, but is not necessarily the best translated word in that instance, and is therefore misleading.

Why?

Well, to say that the Lord must intervene in any life or event in this world is to imply that the Lord does not exercise His powerful control over even the atoms in this universe. I like how Justin Peters put it when referring to the most distant galaxy, billions of light years from earth, and point to just one random atom in the center of a random star, a Hydrogen atom, and observing that the Lord is actively holding that atom together, even though it's too far away to have any measurable effect upon us here, on this planet...even there His consisting power is holding that atom together.

Collasians 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines the Greek word translated "consist" in this way:

"to cohere, hold together: τά πάντα συνέστηκεν ἐν αὐτῷ, Colossians 1:17"

Without that consistent, never relaxed for an instant, power, the entire universe, including our bodies, would "come unglued." Yes, everything would become vapor and just expand outward through space.

Therefore, to presume the Lord is as the Deists believe, in that He wound things up like a clock spring, only to occasionally return and "intervene" where He had lost control because of boredom or some other "deific malady" Deists presume about THEIR god...no. The Lord is always engaged and in total control to the extend that He never needs to intervene. Every event, every happening, even crime, every blessing, every healing, every death from disease...it ALL is within the purview of His Sovereign oversight.

What are your thoughts?

MM

Magenta · Oct 16, 2023

Deism is the belief in the existence of God Who does not interact with humans or the universe.
An example of deism would be believing in a God that created humans and the universe but not
believing that interactions between the deity and the universe occur. Apparently they base their
beliefs solely on rational thought without any reliance on revealed religions or religious authority.
So that also means they reject Scripture. I did speak with a Deist for a while and though he claimed
to be a Deist he also believed that God had intervened in his life = defining himself in self-contradictory terms.

Magenta · Oct 16, 2023

Musicmaster said:

Moses and Paul would be excellent examples to look to, for starters...

Musicmaster · Oct 17, 2023

So, what does the word "intervene" mean, as stated at dictionary.com?

to come between disputing people, groups, etc.; intercede; mediate.
to occur or be between two things.

Does anything surprise the Lord? Did He not see every event, every word spoken, every action, before this world ever was?

There are those who would answer this in the affirmative, and some would then caveat this with the idea that this takes away free will.

To that, I would say an emphatic NO. Where it's true that the Lord knows all, both past and OUR future, it is WE who do not know it, and there is no reason to believe that our choices are controlled by the Lord. This delves into a realm of reality with which none of us has ever had any experience.

What I mean by this is that, dare we think this through deeply enough, the greater implications begin to take shape in our understanding. The Lord is not reactionary, and He is not proactive to the extent that He has to head off something that got in His way as if it were un-foreseen.

For example, two children head toward one another to fight, the parents see what's about to take place, and they intervene. Is it that way with the Lord? I would hope that we can all agree that it is not. Timelessness has that advantage.

So, back to your observation, there is no relationship without prayer. Our prayers are so very precious to the Lord that He keeps them in a vessel before His Throne. They are powerful because He is the One who empowered them.

What's your thoughts on that?

MM

John146 · Oct 17, 2023

Musicmaster said:

Huh?

There are some hyper-charismatics out there who teach about God's alleged "intervening power."

What is that? How does that work? Where does the Bible elude to such a power that actually needs to be exercised at all by the Most High?

I found an instance where the word "intervene" exists in English translations, specifically in the NIV for Isaiah 59:16, which is not a reference to God at all, and the NKJV for Zephaniah 2:7, which IS a reference to an act by God, but is not necessarily the best translated word in that instance, and is therefore misleading.

Why?

Well, to say that the Lord must intervene in any life or event in this world is to imply that the Lord does not exercise His powerful control over even the atoms in this universe. I like how Justin Peters put it when referring to the most distant galaxy, billions of light years from earth, and point to just one random atom in the center of a random star, a Hydrogen atom, and observing that the Lord is actively holding that atom together, even though it's too far away to have any measurable effect upon us here, on this planet...even there His consisting power is holding that atom together.

Collasians 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines the Greek word translated "consist" in this way:

"to cohere, hold together: τά πάντα συνέστηκεν ἐν αὐτῷ, Colossians 1:17"

Without that consistent, never relaxed for an instant, power, the entire universe, including our bodies, would "come unglued." Yes, everything would become vapor and just expand outward through space.

Therefore, to presume the Lord is as the Deists believe, in that He wound things up like a clock spring, only to occasionally return and "intervene" where He had lost control because of boredom or some other "deific malady" Deists presume about THEIR god...no. The Lord is always engaged and in total control to the extend that He never needs to intervene. Every event, every happening, even crime, every blessing, every healing, every death from disease...it ALL is within the purview of His Sovereign oversight.

What are your thoughts?

MM

Do you believe in the power of prayer? Is God reachable, touchable with our prayers?

John146 · Oct 17, 2023

Musicmaster said:

Do you have scripture to back this up, or man's logic?

studentoftheword · Oct 17, 2023

God will not intervene in our lives or the affairs of this world unless He is ask to by and through our prayers for Him to intervene -----

God gave man complete control over all the earth-----and if God were to intervene without being invited to intervene by and through prayer for Him to intervene He would be breaking His own Word ------

So if you want God to intervene in your affairs --you need to pray and ask Him to do so -------but you need to be a True believer for God to hear your prayer and answer your call -----plus ----there is protocol in the scripture to follow for answered prayer -----

Unfortunately ---Mankind has taken God out of THEIR world ---and so God's hands are bound from any intervention ---without being invited to through prayer -------

Genesis 1:26

English Standard Version

26 Then God said, “Let us make man[a] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

We humans have taken God out of our----Church buildings -----governments ----schools ----workplaces ----homes ---hospitals --and out of our Lives in general ---

Nehemiah6 · Oct 17, 2023

Musicmaster said:

God intervening in the affairs of men -- particularly the ones who trust in Him -- is a given. It has noting to do with Deism. The incarnation, death, burial and resurrection of Christ was a major intervention.

selahsays · Oct 17, 2023

Paul was made an apostle by the will of God.

It wasn’t Paul’s choice at all—He was out persecuting Christians when God knocked him down!

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

- Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)

selahsays · Oct 17, 2023

God intervened big time in Jeremiah’s life:

Jeremiah 1:4-9: Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD. Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

JonathanBentley · Oct 17, 2023

God always intervened with man's affairs throughout the entire Old testament appearing to Moses to set the people free, or raising up judges then kings. Sending angels to Daniel would be intervention. Now we have the holy Spirit as every believer to guide our lives in perfect personal holiness. God lives in us doesn't seem like forsaking a ticking clock. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit makes all things possible. The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in us. Our prayers need only travel as far as our hearts where the Spirit dwells; that's not a far away God.

Aaron56 · Oct 17, 2023

I apologize for my mood but I just finished a grant audit (with payroll report) that took me several days. I'm a little crunchy.

That said, is "intervene" really the word we want, here?

It kind of rubs me the wrong way, like the phrase "a God thing" as in "I got the parking place I needed so I wouldn't be late. Must be a God thing." [groan]

Tell me you are a babe in the Lord without saying you are a babe in the Lord.

God does not intervene in our lives. He is our life.

"When Christ who is our life appears..." This is present tense. He is currently our life. Also, we do not yet see Him as He really is by the limits of our senses. One day, all will be clear.

The life we had before Christ should be buried with Him.

"And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.
When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ."

We should always seek the goodness of God in our circumstance especially when His presence is not obvious. But, this is not intervention. This is Christ in us, the hope of glory. He has all rights to live within and through us.

Imma go have a snack now.

Blessings

oyster67 · Oct 18, 2023

Musicmaster said:

My only thought is AMEN!

To think that God would care so much for those teeny-tiny little men on that teeny-tiny planet. He invested everything! ...And then to realize that most of them chose to ignore Him. Woe unto them.

I agree. He never takes His eye off from us. Not even for a moment.

Adstar · Oct 18, 2023

studentoftheword said:

I believe God can and does intervene when He wills to do so.. God having foreknowledge of a persons entire life can intervene in that persons life before they ever accept The LORD Jesus.

How so?

John146 · Oct 18, 2023

Adstar said:

Do you have scripture for this statement?

John146 · Oct 18, 2023

Adstar said:

The Lord declared to Hezekiah that he was going to die. Hezekiah prayed, and the Lord heard his prayer, Hezekiah did not die, but lived another 15 years. Hezekiah's prayer touched the heart of God, and God allowed him to live and not die as he had stated.

Isaiah 38
1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
2 Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the Lord,
3 And said, Remember now, O Lord, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
4 Then came the word of the Lord to Isaiah, saying,
5 Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the Lord, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.

John146 · Oct 18, 2023

Musicmaster said:

Huh?

There are some hyper-charismatics out there who teach about God's alleged "intervening power."

What is that? How does that work? Where does the Bible elude to such a power that actually needs to be exercised at all by the Most High?

I found an instance where the word "intervene" exists in English translations, specifically in the NIV for Isaiah 59:16, which is not a reference to God at all, and the NKJV for Zephaniah 2:7, which IS a reference to an act by God, but is not necessarily the best translated word in that instance, and is therefore misleading.

Why?

Well, to say that the Lord must intervene in any life or event in this world is to imply that the Lord does not exercise His powerful control over even the atoms in this universe. I like how Justin Peters put it when referring to the most distant galaxy, billions of light years from earth, and point to just one random atom in the center of a random star, a Hydrogen atom, and observing that the Lord is actively holding that atom together, even though it's too far away to have any measurable effect upon us here, on this planet...even there His consisting power is holding that atom together.

Collasians 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines the Greek word translated "consist" in this way:

"to cohere, hold together: τά πάντα συνέστηκεν ἐν αὐτῷ, Colossians 1:17"

Without that consistent, never relaxed for an instant, power, the entire universe, including our bodies, would "come unglued." Yes, everything would become vapor and just expand outward through space.

Therefore, to presume the Lord is as the Deists believe, in that He wound things up like a clock spring, only to occasionally return and "intervene" where He had lost control because of boredom or some other "deific malady" Deists presume about THEIR god...no. The Lord is always engaged and in total control to the extend that He never needs to intervene. Every event, every happening, even crime, every blessing, every healing, every death from disease...it ALL is within the purview of His Sovereign oversight.

What are your thoughts?

MM

Our prayers to God can cause things to happen, that would not and should not have happened in the natural course of history, but because we prayed, God intervened and made a way.

Cameron143 · Oct 18, 2023

John146 said:

Psalm 139:16...Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them...

John146 · Oct 18, 2023

Cameron143 said:

God sees us in the womb, not being yet completely formed, and all my members, parts of my body, God has put together. There is structure God has put forth as he forms a child in the womb.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Musicmaster · Oct 18, 2023

John146 said:

Power of prayer...a concept that is not in scripture so far as I can see, but I understand what you're saying. Prayer is effective, and He hears us, yes. However, to say that the Lord made changes to how He would otherwise have done on the basis of prayer in a reactionary sense, no.

MM

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