Israel Declares War

C'mon Smoke... somebody voted them in. I doubt that Scandinavians did, pretty sure it was Palestinians, and I'd guess that many, if not most of them that did are still very much alive.

I don't think you are cheering for one side. I do think there is a clear double-standard people have. I won't pretend I don't have it when it comes to other issues/conflicts. I do get triggered when I see people use words to downplay the life of a child, but I don't try to argue dishonestly. I may not frame things in the way people want me to... I don't sugarcoat killing children... I am very direct and use people's words against them. The quotes I keep posting are just some of the cavalier responses people give when they share a story of Palestinian civilians dying. They are literally some of the same arguments pro-choice people have told me when discussing their argument for abortions. These children aren't "collateral damage"... They aren't to be shrugged off "because war is bad".. We should exhaust every effort to protect them. When more civilians are dying than actual terrorists, something is clearly wrong.

I never said this, and I'm not "people." Once again, we simply can't communicate. Have a great rest of your day.

Look brother, I am just giving you what I believe to be factual information. The last election was in 2006. 47.3% of Gazans are under 18. And I believe Hamas beat Fatah in that election with 44% of the vote.

Assuming 100% of the Palestinians who voted for Hamas is still alive, that is still far less than half the population... especially when we consider 47.3% are under 18. You can reject these figures, but I've already posting sources giving this information. If you think it's wrong, by all means, lets see your sources.

It's the only thing in that message, which doesn't show any quotes. I don't know how it is that you "didn't say that" but ok.

You willing responded to my post when I initially said people have made that argument. Don't respond, misquote me, and then refuse to identify as part of the group of people who made that argument.

Some people, me included, would suggest that this is a mindset that begins wars.

I didn't misquote you. Again, it's the only text in that message with your name and picture. But you say it's not you. I'm not sure how that can be, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt now.

And many (adult) Palestinians have immigrated elsewhere too, right. But let's not belabor the point and agree that Palestinians voted Hamas into power and keep them there.

Sorry, I don't think I understand what you're saying.

Do you still think the majority of Palestinians today voted for Hamas in 2006 or no? I can't tell.

You are correct that more civilians are dying..... I think that is a direct result of the way Hamas has chosen to embed themselves into the civilian population.
Much the same happened in Viet Nam.... to the point that it was nearly impossible to tell the difference between civilian and combatant. Mothers that booby trapped their babies and handed them to GI's and blew them up. How do you fight that kind of war, when the enemy has NO regard for human life?

Either way, it is an incredible waste of life....

I tend to think that the majority of Palestinians that were authorized/were capable to vote in 2006 are both alive and are content with Hamas remaining in power. Let's remember that Hamas militants are Palestinian too, (appx. 30,000 in Gaza).
I do concede that a large number, of which I have no info, immigrated to other lands.

Yes, something is wrong. Hamas uses civilians as shields. They hate their own people.

I think I could believe of the 44% who voted for Hamas in 2006 are probably alive too. Nevertheless, that is less than half of the population. Gaza has had one of the highest birth rates in the world and now have one of the youngest populations in the world as a result.

I won't pretend that there are probably many pro-Hamas civilians inside Gaza today. I try to understand this from a psychological point of view on how a group of people can support such a terroristic government. But to be clear... analysis is not justification.

If I was born in an open-air prison, my power, water, and economy is regulated by Israel, I'm being oppressed by my occupiers, etc... Then I see a group of terrorists who claim to be fighting to free me, I will probably sympathize with Hamas over my oppressor as well. I think more people would regardless of their ability to admit it or not.

I tend to agree with that in part. I do wonder however, and maybe you'll know the answer to this, do the Palestinians not have the right to build a peaceful and prosperous land for themselves, withing the boarders of Gaza?

And when you talk about the "oppression" that Israel imposing... is that their policing presence? Isn't Israel in Gaza because they're trying to keep the terrorists from continuing attacks, both in/against Israel and inside Gaza itself?

Many people want to claim that the Muslim brotherhood is a terrorist organization and want to deny that they are for peace. This is probably because they see them trying to kill Jews at an airport or a US university. However, what is more peaceful than a cemetery? You see, an organization can be a terrorist organization and also claim they are for peace.

The question is "how do they plan on achieving peace"?

I don't think so with Hamas around. "Villains aren't born, they are created." The villain needs to be removed if we are to have peace in my opinion, even if the villain is a villain because of decades of oppression and injustice. Kind of like most child molesters are victims of child molestation as well. It's terrible to hear... but they should be locked up and isolated from society.

No, Israel handed Gaza over to the Palestinians in 2005. They pulled all of the Israeli's out and reluctantly agreed to let the Palestinians have that little tiny piece of land. However, they are still considered occupiers of Gaza because they can't come and go as they wish, Israel has a blockage imposed on them so their economy is handicapped, and Israel controlls power, water, communications etc...

In 2006, the Palestinians had an election and voted in Hamas over Fatah. Fatah and Hamas fought for a while as well. People were shocked when Hamas won.

The interesting thing is that there isn't a single Hamas terrorist in the West Banks or in East Jerusalem (they are not recognized by international law to be under Israeli sovereignty) yet Israel has occupied them since 1967. They have been oppressing and killing Palestinians for decades and settling Israelis in Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem. District Courts which have no jurisdiction in East Jerusalem require Palestinians to leave their homes... guess who they replace them with... Other Palestinians? lol Funny joke, no... Israelis. Under international law, this is 100% a war crime. The US backs Israel no matter what and that is why it's allowed to be done. Being the super power of the world means you don't always have to follow the rules.

Exactly how the Germans were taught to believe before WWII. My first visit to Dachau was extremely emotional. Not only because of what had happened there, but more because I saw how close the people lived. It's not out in the countryside, but right in the middle of town. I had to search inside and ask myself, wondering "What would I have done? Would I have fought against what was happening, knowing I would likely die? Or would I have kept quiet and just pretended what I knew was happening wasn't?" What's worse is I couldn't find an answer. No one could unless they'd been there. Anything other than doing something to stop it would've been sinful.

Hamas making 'number of demands' for foreign nationals in Gaza: State Department
State Department spokesperson Matt Miller said Hamas was making "a number of demands" for opening the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and Gaza to foreign nationals, including the 500 to 600 Americans who are trapped in Gaza.

"Hamas is making a number of demands before they’ll allow people to leave Gaza. I’m not going to speak to those demands, but it's something we're continuing to try to work through," he said.

-ABC News' Shannon Crawford

These are some tough questions to answer for sure.

I was talking to my dad about this the other day. I asked him if the Treaty of Versailles, and the restrictions that came with it, was a key reason why so many Germans were able to buy into Hitler's garbage propaganda. I go back and forth on this. Germany deserved to be hit with some consequences... was it too much though?