The End Times: Who is the Beast and the Antichrist?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,058
5,415
113
62
i can’t even understand the question completely lol

what do you mean by approximate the times ?
For example, you list 2 beasts as separate from one another. Are they in the same time period? Are they in separate time periods? When approximately in history do they occur?

Also, if you have a general outline for the book of Revelation it would be greatly appreciated.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
570
113
Appreciate it. Also, do you have a general outline for the book of Revelation?
I have definitive certainty about some things in the book of Revelation (who the beast, the another beast, and the woman are), some insight on other things in the book of Revelation, and basically no clue about some other things in the book of Revelation...and I am okay with that.

Christians all know in part (1 Corinthians 13:9, 12).

In an ideal situation, people can civilly discuss the Bible or, more specifically, the book of Revelation, and glean pieces of truth from each other, and then we can collectively have the whole picture.

Anyhow, I have a lot going on in my personal life right now (some good for a change, but it requires a lot of my time and effort), so I will have to add whatever I can, piece by piece, as I can find the time to do so.

I will try to begin by documenting some very real ties between the Vatican and Israel/Jerusalem, but I still have more to add in relation to Jerusalem being "Babylon the Great" as well.

Sorry, but I have too many people/things vying for my time at the moment, so please be patient with me, and I will contribute when I can.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,058
5,415
113
62
I have definitive certainty about some things in the book of Revelation (who the beast, the another beast, and the woman are), some insight on other things in the book of Revelation, and basically no clue about some other things in the book of Revelation...and I am okay with that.

Christians all know in part (1 Corinthians 13:9, 12).

In an ideal situation, people can civilly discuss the Bible or, more specifically, the book of Revelation, and glean pieces of truth from each other, and then we can collectively have the whole picture.

Anyhow, I have a lot going on in my personal life right now (some good for a change, but it requires a lot of my time and effort), so I will have to add whatever I can, piece by piece, as I can find the time to do so.

I will try to begin by documenting some very real ties between the Vatican and Israel/Jerusalem, but I still have more to add in relation to Jerusalem being "Babylon the Great" as well.

Sorry, but I have too many people/things vying for my time at the moment, so please be patient with me, and I will contribute when I can.
I appreciate anything you might share.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
570
113

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
570
113
A good distinction. But the Roman Empire has no connection to Israel today. So when is it talking about?
I am sorry, but I only have time right now for some short posts. I have much more to add in the future.

Here is a little history of the relationship between the Vatican and Israel:

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/vatican-israel-relations

The Vatican did not officially recognize Israel as a nation until 1993. Believe me (I will eventually document it), they have been making land grabs in Israel for quite some time now, and their ultimate goal is the Temple Mount.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,503
1,411
113
Which is preceded by this:

Revelation 17:7

"And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

There are two separate entities being described here:

1. The woman.
2. The beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

In other words, the seven heads or seven hills are part of the beast, and not of the woman.

You are conflating the two.

The woman is Jerusalem, and the beast is Rome or, more specifically, Papal Rome.
——————
No. The woman is MYSTERY BABYLON and the beast is Satan.

Revelation 17:

1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, “Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

So what will the angel show us? It's the judgment and what will happen to her, not the whore.

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabiters of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

These kings of the earth are our own leaders and they like to play along with her evil ways.

3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

This woman is conducting her dirty business with the whole world.

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

This woman is Mystery Babylon.

And in chapter 18:

3 "For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."

4. And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
570
113
From the Temple Mount website:

https://www.templemount.org/tempprep.html

"As a religious center Jerusalem remains sacred to (and fought over by) all three monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. It is an open secret that the Pope aspires to set up his world headquarters there, having claimed for many years that the Holy Land has all along really been under Roman Catholic "stewardship." UN debates, Arab neighbors, and the PLO urge the "internationalization" of this modest city, though it is no secret that the actually want the city all to themselves without any Jews."

This is all that I have time for tonight...
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,058
5,415
113
62
I am sorry, but I only have time right now for some short posts. I have much more to add in the future.

Here is a little history of the relationship between the Vatican and Israel:

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/vatican-israel-relations

The Vatican did not officially recognize Israel as a nation until 1993. Believe me (I will eventually document it), they have been making land grabs in Israel for quite some time now, and their ultimate goal is the Temple Mount.
I'm particularly interested in commonly shared endeavors. Also, I don't know if you have ever outlined the book of Revelation, but I would also appreciate your outline, or just a general sense of the book's focus and how it develops. Take your time.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,503
1,411
113
——————
No. The woman is MYSTERY BABYLON and the beast is Satan.

Revelation 17:

1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, “Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

So what will the angel show us? It's the judgment and what will happen to the whore.

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabiters of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

These kings of the earth are our own leaders and they like to play along with her evil ways.

3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

This woman is conducting her dirty business with the whole world.

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

This woman is Mystery Babylon.

And in chapter 18:

3 "For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."

4. And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
*made a small correction of commentary after Rev. 17:2
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,803
5,147
113
For example, you list 2 beasts as separate from one another. Are they in the same time period? Are they in separate time periods? When approximately in history do they occur?

Also, if you have a general outline for the book of Revelation it would be greatly appreciated.
oh ok I understand the question now have you ever read the book of Daniel brother ?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,803
5,147
113
did you notice that Daniel has a series of visions (counting nebucadnezzar dream he interprets )about four nations that we’re going to rise up and one would have four heads or four leaders ? And these kingdoms old have dominion on earth while they stood until the next came ?

for instance the first is nebecadnezzars dream here

“This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all.

Thou art this head of gold. ( nebucadnezzar of Babylon )

And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee,

and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.


And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.( kingdom of God )

Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭2:36-45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

can you see the events in revelation reflecting or relating in anyway in what Daniel explained there ?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,058
5,415
113
62
did you notice that Daniel has a series of visions (counting nebucadnezzar dream he interprets )about four nations that we’re going to rise up and one would have four heads or four leaders ? And these kingdoms old have dominion on earth while they stood until the next came ?

for instance the first is nebecadnezzars dream here

“This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all.

Thou art this head of gold. ( nebucadnezzar of Babylon )

And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee,

and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.


And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.( kingdom of God )

Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭2:36-45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

can you see the events in revelation reflecting or relating in anyway in what Daniel explained there ?
Sure. I believe the 4 kingdoms began with Babylon, then the Medes and Persians, then Greece, then Rome.
But what I'm interested to know from folks is their breakdown of the book of Revelation. Everyone has a perspective of how certain passages breakdown. But I haven't seen anyone begin with a general view of the book, God's purpose for writing the book, a general outline of the book, and how it all fits together. I'm looking for a view from 10,000 feet; not a flyover. I'm doing reconnaissance; not engaging in the fray.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
570
113
For example, you list 2 beasts as separate from one another. Are they in the same time period? Are they in separate time periods? When approximately in history do they occur?
I know that this question was not posed to me, but I will quickly begin to answer it.

Revelation chapter 13

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

In this chapter, we clearly see two different beasts or kingdoms (Daniel 7:17, 23).

1. A beast rising up out of the sea, who is "the first beast," or "the first beast before him" (the "another beast" which comes after him in time).
2. Another beast coming up out of the earth.

In regard to the first beast, we read that one of his heads was wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed, or whose deadly wound was healed, or which had the wound by a sword, and did live. I could easily prove to you, from both the Bible and recorded history, that this beast's wound has already been healed, and exactly who this beast is. Not only this, but this helps us to properly identify the "another beast" who appears on the scene after "the first beast" chronologically.

Anyhow, both beasts or kingdoms will be in existence together in the last days (and they already are), and the "another beast" will work in conjunction with "the first beast" in that he will not only say to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to "the first beast," but he will also cause all to receive the mark of the (first) beast or the mark of the kingdom which preceded his kingdom.

Sorry, but I do not have the time to elaborate further right now.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,951
2,876
113
There's a thread right now called "What is the point of being a prophet?" where the original poster starts with that question and then several posts later give his prophecy about the beast which he thinks is Russia, the antichrist which he thinks is Putin and the US he thinks is Babylon. There are too many Bible verses that contradict that prophecy and I posted that as such.

I'm truly surprised that no one is posting against that false prophecy except me though. This forum is well versed in the Rapture and its various positions of No-. Pre-, Mid-, and Post-Tribulation Rapture. So the silence on other areas of study on the end times is quite significant and I think strange.

I think this is a very important topic since the end times and the revealing of the beast is fast approaching with a lot of false prophecy is coming out of the woodwork lately to try to distract us from the real deal. I don't think we should be uninformed about this. So I'm asking everyone: Who do you think is the beast, the antichrist and Babylon? Please post the Bible verses that brought you to that belief.

Thanks!


🍄
Nobody knows. All we have is speculation. Rome fits the description of Babylon. However, so does Mecca. Islam is the most fervent and active enemy of Israel. Catholicism and Islam are on the path to merging. The Catholic organisation is hardly pro Israel.

Those who are born again will recognise the beast and the Antichrist when he arises. That's what matters.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,503
1,411
113
The first beast mentioned in Revelation 13 is described as a 7-headed monster with 10 horns (symbolism). There are two beasts—one is political (a 1-world system) and one is religious (the Antichrist). The 10 horns refer to 10 kings or world leaders and these kings come on the scene when the Antichrist appears. These 10 kings will align completely with the AC and will make war with Jesus Christ and His saints. These 10 kings are the first beast, the 1-world political system.

Here's the first beast:
Rev 13:1-2 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

IMG_6444.jpeg

The picture above is symbolic, of course, but it shows the structure of what the first beast, the New World Order, will look like after the second beast, Satan, the dragon, is cast out of heaven and takes over.

Here’s the second beast mentioned in Revelation 13:

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast (theone-world system): and they worshipped the beast (the Antichrist), saying, Who is like unto the beast (the one-world system)? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.

- Revelation 13:1-9
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,613
3,193
113
The seventh head of the beast was probably Hitler.