Is Baptism in water a work or a command? Is it necessary for salvation?

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Wansvic

Wansvic

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oyster67 said:
Just in case someone is confused about the difference between Baptism unto Salvation (Holy Spirit Baptism) and Water Baptism...

Water Baptism is never associated with either Salvation or receiving the Holy Spirit.
In John 1:33, John Baptist draws a direct distinction between his water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism by Jesus...

John 1:33
“And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.”

In the book of Acts, The Holy Spirit is introduced in stages. The time of Acts is a transitional period.

1.) In Acts 2, The HS comes upon a group meeting in an upper room and is manifest in a flame of fire...
Acts 2:
1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

2.) Later in Acts, the Holy Spirit is bestowed upon John Baptist's followers by the laying on of Hands by the Apostles.
e.g...
Acts 19:
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

We now understand that the baptism that is associated with salvation and the receiving of the Holy Ghost is Jesus' Baptism. We no longer seek out Apostles for laying on of hands but go directly to Jesus.

Water baptism is now only a ritual which points back to our true experience of being born again by Jesus.
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Obedience to the water baptism command is associated with salvation. It is upon obedience that one's sins are remitted per scripture. In addition to water baptism in the name of Jesus ALL must receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost in order to enter the kingdom of God.

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38


In the NT the name of Jesus began to be used in administering water baptism as it related specifically to His death, burial and resurrection. This is confirmed throughout scripture. In the Acts 19 account Paul rebaptized the Ephesians in water. And afterward assisted the individuals in receiving the Holy Ghost. Both are required for salvation.

"Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:4-6
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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NightTwister said:
Because obeying a command is a work.
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Amen! Faith is believing and multiple acts of obedience which "follow" saving faith in Christ are works and we are not saved by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

There is difference between doing God's will in order to become saved (John 6:40) and doing God's will after we have been saved. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18)
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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mailmandan said:
Amen! Faith is believing and multiple acts of obedience which "follow" saving faith in Christ are works and we are not saved by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

There is difference between doing God's will in order to become saved (John 6:40) and doing God's will after we have been saved. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18)
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Amen!

i did ask him with in mind that he is Saved.
and he gave the answer you have quoted, which, does not align with (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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DebD said:
Hi I’m new here and have been following this thread. i want to relay something that occurred between our local churches, we have been having a “Prayer and Praise” once a month including all of our local churches. Most of the Pastors did some talking, along with our worship teams with music. We had planned in Communion together that evening. One of the pastors (not mine) stood up and admonished that anyone participating in communion should be baptized before partaking in communion. There were many attending this event, that were afraid to partake in communion because of this admonishment, even as they were looking forward to participating. it did Not feel right or correct to me. I would like to hear opinions on this.
thanx for letting me join this Christian forum. God Bless You all.
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Welcome!
:)
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

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DebD said:
One of the pastors (not mine) stood up and admonished that anyone participating in communion should be baptized before partaking in communion. There were many attending this event, that were afraid to partake in communion because of this admonishment, even as they were looking forward to participating. it did Not feel right or correct to me.
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Precious friend, I understand what you mean. When I was I babe In Christ, this
Confusion / Division / judgmentalism over water baptism troubled me for years.
Thank God, He Graciously Led me to His:


and I realized that this Operation of God resulting from our 'mutual faith' In
Christ, was why we Grace believers can have "unity/fellowship/communion,"
rather than the Confusing "traditions of men," from which I then departed,
no regrets...

Hope this helps.

ChrisE
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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DebD said:
One of the pastors (not mine) stood up and admonished that anyone participating in communion should be baptized before partaking in communion.
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Regardless of how you reacted to this, what this pastor said was according to Scripture.

You will note in the book of Acts that the apostles ALWAYS baptized new converts with Christian baptism. WHICH IS A COMMANDMENT OF CHRIST (Mt 28:18-20; Mk 16:15,16). Which means that all those baptized Christians would then partake of the Lord's Supper on the Lord's Day every week.

In other words, baptism is a necessity in order to go forward with the Lord's Supper and indeed with the Christian life. And that is why Peter COMMANDED the Gentile converts in the house of Cornelius to be immediately baptized after they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

ACTS 10: SALVATION IS IMMEDIATELY CONFIRMED THROUGH WATER BAPTISM
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

There are a few Hyper-Dispensationalists (such ad Grace_ Ambassador) who reject Christian baptism. But the majority of Bible-believing Christians understand that that commandment of Christ is still in effect.
 
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tylerbones1313

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Bob-Carabbio said:
Since I was Born again in 1963, and received the Holy Spirit (as all Born again Christians do), as the result of Southern Baptist outreach, on a Wednesday night in my Bedroom, the following Sunday in the Evening service, I was Baptised by immersion in the three titles.

I wasn't any MORE "saved", and nothing changed, except that I was wetter, and had to change clothes. But I felt that I had been obedient to the Bible indication that a Saved person SHOULD BE baptized. So I was.

Simple as that.

A local Assembly of God Church in Red OAk, TX held a "SPLASH PARTY" a month ago, and baptized about 150 people on profession of faith, in two tanks during morning service.
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The saving doesn't come from the water, it comes from where we place our faith. Our faith isn't in the water to save but rather in Christ's blood to cover and take away our Sin (referring to the Sin nature not the act of sin).
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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tylerbones1313 said:
The saving doesn't come from the water, it comes from where we place our faith.
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BINGO!!!

Our faith isn't in the water to save but rather in Christ's blood to cover and take away our Sin (referring to the Sin nature not the act of sin).
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Except that THERE'S NO SUCH THING as "Sin Nature". there's only HUMAN NATURE, which never changes.
 
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tylerbones1313

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Bob-Carabbio said:
BINGO!!!



Except that THERE'S NO SUCH THING as "Sin Nature". there's only HUMAN NATURE, which never changes.
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Romans 6

Sin as a Master:


  • Verse 6: We see the Sin Nature personified as the "old man," crucified with Christ. This symbolizes the need to die to its power over us. We were once "slaves of sin" (v.17), controlled by its desires and dictates.

Sin's Indwelling Presence:


  • Verse 12: Despite being "dead to sin" (v.11) through Christ, Paul acknowledges the Sin Nature's lingering presence. It's like a tenant still residing in a house, even though ownership has changed.

Sin's Deceitful Power:


  • Verse 13: The Sin Nature is cunning. It disguises itself as "righteousness" and "holiness," making us vulnerable to its snares. We might even rationalize our wrongdoings under the guise of good intentions.

Sin's Demanding Voice:


  • Verse 16: The Sin Nature constantly demands obedience. It whispers temptations, fuels desires, and urges us to "present ourselves slaves" to its will. We experience this internal struggle, yearning for good yet often succumbing to the pull of sin.

Sin's Temporary Reign:


  • Verse 14: While the Sin Nature may be persistent, its reign is not eternal. We are no longer slaves bound to obey its every command. We have the freedom to choose, to resist its allure, and to "present ourselves slaves to God" (v.13).

Sin's Powerlessness over the Believer:


  • Verse 7: The key lies in understanding that sin has no legal claim over us anymore. It's like a discharged debt, wiped clean by Christ's sacrifice. We are "freed from sin" (v.7), no longer condemned or under its dominion.

Victory in the New Identity:


  • Verse 11: Our new identity in Christ empowers us to overcome the Sin Nature. We are no longer defined by our old self but by the indwelling Holy Spirit, who strengthens us to resist temptation and walk in righteousness.

Romans 6 doesn't sugarcoat the Sin Nature's influence. It acknowledges its presence, its power, and its deceptive tactics. But ultimately, it offers a message of hope and freedom. We are not condemned to be its subjects. Through faith in Christ, we have the power to resist its pull, walk in the Spirit, and experience the true victory over sin.


Remember, this is just a glimpse into the rich tapestry of Romans 6. As you delve deeper into the text, you'll discover even more about the Sin Nature and the glorious freedom found in Christ.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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tylerbones1313 said:
Through faith in Christ, we have the power to resist its pull, walk in the Spirit, and experience the true victory over sin.
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And our faith is in Christ, because he died, was buried, and by the Holy Spirit, was raised from the dead.... which is why baptism is important... in it, the believer is emulating Christ... our old sinful man dies, we are buried in the waters of baptism, and then are raised up out of the water, resurrected, ready to begin our new life in Christ, with the indwelling Holy Spirit....
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Bob-Carabbio said:
Except that THERE'S NO SUCH THING as "Sin Nature". there's only HUMAN NATURE, which never changes.
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The New Testament calls it "the flesh" or "the old man". So there is indeed the indwelling sin nature within human nature. But after a person is born again, this sin nature has no dominion over the child of God. At the same time, it is always in conflict with the indwelling Holy Spirit as noted in Galatians chapter 5.
 
S

seemlesanctity

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for many people who who eventually at some points in time cannot afford an elaborate water tank for baptism - with beautiful decorations and fine wood overlay with the doves and water images

what are these Christians to do ?

I believe that even though a Christian would not be able to find a clean body of water to be baptized in -

nor even do they have access to a bathtub -

the heart of the un - baptized believer should be looking forward to the hope that someday these things will be available and believing in their heart that they have completed the expectation that God required and that they have obtained the wonderful gift of salvation.
 
Pilgrimshope

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Nehemiah6 said:
No. Repentance is for the remission of sins. The "water" that Christ spoke of is the "washing of water by the Word" (the Gospel). This is the "clean water" mentioned by Ezekiel, not ordinary water as many assume mistakenly. And Peter clarified what leads to the remission of sins.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19)
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Lol Man
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

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NightTwister said:
Because obeying a command is a work.
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According to 1 John 3:23, believing on the name of Jesus is a commandment.

1 John 3:23 says,
”And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

Also, we learn in John 1:12:

”But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:” (John 1:12).

So are you saying that believing on the name of Jesus is a work?
Believing on the name of Jesus is how we can become a son of God and it is a command.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Bible_Highlighter said:
According to 1 John 3:23, believing on the name of Jesus is a commandment.

1 John 3:23 says,
”And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

Also, we learn in John 1:12:

”But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:” (John 1:12).

So are you saying that believing on the name of Jesus is a work?
Believing on the name of Jesus is how we can become a son of God and it is a command.
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Note the parallel between John 1:12 and Acts 2:37-42. Everyone is given the opportunity to BECOME SONS of God:

”But as many as received him,
to them gave he power TO BECOME the sons of God,
even TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:” (John 1:12)



Scripture confirms it was those who received the truth concerning Jesus that became sons of God AFTER obeying what they were told to do:

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: AND THE SAME DAY there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:37-41)
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

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Wansvic said:
Note the parallel between John 1:12 and Acts 2:37-42. Everyone is given the opportunity to BECOME SONS of God:

”But as many as received him,
to them gave he power TO BECOME the sons of God,
even TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:” (John 1:12)



Scripture confirms it was those who received the truth concerning Jesus that became sons of God AFTER obeying what they were told to do:

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: AND THE SAME DAY there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:37-41)
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I believe the Bible teaches two aspects of salvation.
I believe Christians are first….

#1. Saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9) and can include repentance in most cases (Which is seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus). The entrance gate is believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Cornelius and his family simply believed and the Spirit came upon them (i.e., they were saved).​
​
#2. Sanctification (Which is to live holy by the Spirit, which includes putting away sin, good works, and obeying God’s commands in the New Testament) See 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13. For example: 1 Timothy 5:8 says if any man provides not for his own he has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel (unbeliever). Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.​

Side Note:

While water baptism is a part of Sanctification, it is not a salvation issue (See: 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 1:17).
But Christians will want to be water baptized if they find the right body of believers who are faithful to the Lord’s words (Which is hard to find in these last days where most Christians desire to justify sin in some way).
 
JohnDB

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tylerbones1313 said:
Everything I am about to say rests of these Scriptures.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Acts 2:37-41 is a passage in the Book of Acts that describes the conversion of a large number of people to Christianity following Peter's Pentecost sermon. The passage begins with the people being "cut to the heart" after hearing Peter's sermon, which they realized convicted them of their sins. They then asked Peter and the other apostles what they should do. Peter responded by telling them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. He also promised them that they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Those who gladly received Peter's word were baptized, and on that day about 3,000 souls were added to the church. This passage is significant because it shows how the early church grew rapidly in the weeks and months following Jesus's ascension into heaven. It also highlights the importance of repentance and baptism in the Christian faith.

Here is a breakdown of the passage:

Acts 2:37

This verse describes the reaction of the people to Peter's sermon. They were "cut to the heart" by his words, which means that they were deeply moved and convicted by them. This is a common reaction to the preaching of the gospel, as it exposes people's sin and need for salvation.

Acts 2:38

This verse records the people's question to Peter and the other apostles. They asked, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" This shows that they were open to changing their ways and following Jesus Christ.

Acts 2:39

Peter's response to the people's question is a summary of the gospel message. He told them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Repentance is a turning away from sin, and baptism is a symbolic washing away of sin.

Acts 2:40

Peter continued his explanation of the gospel by telling the people that they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is sent to dwell in the hearts of believers. He empowers them to live for Christ and to share the gospel with others.

Acts 2:41

This verse describes the response of those who gladly received Peter's word. They were baptized, and on that day about 3,000 souls were added to the church. This is a remarkable number of conversions, and it shows how the early church was growing rapidly.
The passage concludes with Peter and the other apostles continuing to preach the gospel and teach the new converts. The church continued to grow and spread throughout the world.
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Baptism is an ordinance of the Faith....much like Communion is an ordinance.
Your participation in ordinances is as everything else Jesus commanded...between you and Him. If He decides your lack of faith in these commands coming from Him is unacceptable behavior....

Might need to go buy some oil!
 
C

CorrectiveLens

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On Baptism
Acts 1: 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
In this verse two different mediums for baptism are mentioned, water and the Holy Spirit. One is accomplished by a man and the other by Jesus Christ. One is a work of man and the other is a spiritual event. One is symbolic and the other is actual. One is derived from a Jewish tradition of spiritual cleansing and the other involves trusting in Jesus' death for the remission of your sins. One covers your body with water and the other fills you with the Holy Spirit of the Father and Son because both will reside in your heart to fill it with the love necessary to obey the Spirit of the Law so that all thoughts and actions are motivated by love for God first and everyone else as we love ourselves, one is to confuse those to whom understanding the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven is not given and the other brings understanding, direction, and a new state of being (new birth).
 
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