The Rapture will happen in the middle of the Tribulation

Au Contraire, I have no 'false hope' but, I do have Comfort in All of God's Words
About my:

Great GRACE Departure!

Amen.

OK, well . . . good luck with that! They are rounding us up as we speak.

No such thing as 'good luck' Under Grace, as:

"...we walk by faith, not by sight..." (1Co 5:7). Amen?

Do you understand that the persecution and tribulations of Christians are NOT a result of God's wrath, but quite the opposite. So now we have another naysayer to the Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture.

So before you go any further meditate on this passage in Romans 8:
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you know why God allows all these afflictions to come upon Christians and that they do not express His wrath since God has NOT appointed us to wrath? Search the Scriptures, then talk about the Mid-Tribulation Rapture (which would be nonsensical by any measure).

Only those who clearly understand the PURPOSE of the Resurrection/Rapture will see that it has absolutely nothing to do with any TRIBULATION PERIOD. And it is a period of 3 1/2 years (the first half of Daniel's 70th week). Daniel 12:1 says that this "time of trouble" is for the Jews ("thy people"), and Jeremiah calls it "the time of Jacob's trouble". And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1).

But it is a distinct and unique period, which has nothing to do with the trials and tribulations of Christians. On the other hand, when Christ first revealed the doctrine of the Rapture, He prefaced it with "Let not your heart be troubled: Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is exactly what is detailed further in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, where "I will come again" is expressed as "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout". Christ does NOT send out angels to the four corners of the earth at this time (as He does after His Second Coming in Matthew 24). He comes personally for His Bride (the Church) and His coming has always been imminent -- not preceded by any tribulation period.

It is a baseless hope!

I am being facetious, Grace because the Pretribulation position is baseless. Like the song goes: My hope is built on nothing . . . and the song ends there! There is NO scripture basis for the Pretribulation theological position and the verses in Revelation 7:13-15 and Revelation 20:4 prove it.

I'm noting that in either one of your diatribes, Nehemiah, you have not provided me with a single verse that supports the Pretribulation position. That's because your position is eisegetical and not exegetical - you impress your belief on the scriptures rather than draw it out of the text. This is because the Pretribulation theological position is baseless! You use verses that affirm the rapture as though they support the Pretribulation rapture position, so you have to defend your baseless belief by attacking me and by suggesting I don't understand God's covenant with the church or His love for the church. The point I'm making in siting 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is the fallacious application people like you have made of this verse because of your erroneous Pretribulation theological position. The verse isn't talking about the application of God's wrath on anyone in this world, it's talking about God's wrath in His final judgment!

I would simply say that my understanding of the purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture is different than yours, Nehemiah. You believe that the time of Jacob's trouble is in the first 3.5 years of the tribulation, and I believe it is in the second 3.5 years of the tribulation: after ha-satan is cast out of heaven - Rev 12, after the beast and the antichrist arrive on the scene to persecute those who do not carry the beast's mark - Rev 13, after the antichrist takes up his throne in the temple and betrays the people of Israel - Daniel 9, and after the rapture of the church - Rev 14.

I agree completely the time of Jacob's trouble is the second 3 1/2 year period. First 3 1/2 years brings protection, peace and security, jews returning home and the building of the Temple.

Do you not see the contradiction in your own statement, Nehemiah? You claim that His Second Coming has always been imminent and not preceded by any tribulation period, but you assign the Second Coming to a time before the tribulation. But His coming is tied to tribulation as 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 states: "Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God." And yet the antichrist does not arrive on the scene until Rev 9, and starts to exert his influence until Rev 13.

River, you said the resurrection/ rapture happens after 3 1/2 years-----add 75 days. This takes us to the prophet Daniels 1335th day, the Blessed day at Rev.14:14-16. 1260 plus 75 = 1335 days.

This Blessed day is Pentecost. Just as the church started at Pentecost so will it end on the self-same day. Notice also when Peter spoke on that Pentecost quoting the prophet Joel; Great and Terrible Day of the Lord. But Peter changed it to Great and Glorious. And the Day of the Lord begins at Rev 14:14-16.

Joel was speaking of the unrighteous, Peter the righteous (christians. Joel was speaking of those in Rev 14:17-20 Peter those in Rev 14:14-16.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

I incline toward mid trib, The Great Trib incidentally is the time of Jacob's trouble, tribulation is troublation.

But mid trib is the hottest part. When Nastypants sits in the temple and declares that he is God he will have wiped out all or virtually all other expression of religious belief from the earth, including the church. But the returning Lord will slay him by the brightness of His appearing and by the breath of His nostrils.

The church should be preparing for the coming Holocaust and martyrdom.

Paul said "then we who are alive and who remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the clouds so shall we ever be with Him"

The remaining part of the tribulation will be taken up with the total destruction of those who came up with Antichrist and those who have received his mark.

"through great tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of God" Thess 5.

yeah ll we have to do is read what Jesus said about it , then what his apostles said about it and it’s absolutely clear there is no such thing as a “pre tribulation “rapture Jesus promised his disciples they would certainly face it and j this world but to be strong through it and endure

After to much of this bickering, in local places of gatherings.
I have been searching for any Spirit filled gatherings. Big or small anywhere.
But this insanity has spread to every corner.
At the last Trumpet - Once saved always saved - Believe AND Obey.
My Lord will you find any faith, when you come for us ?

Parable of the Fig Tree

Mat 24:32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.

And what feast of the Lord matches when the fig tree puts forth it's leaves??

A spring time event at Pentecost

1 Thes 5: 2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
1 Thess 5: 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

( why ?) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:1-4‬ ‭

“being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ….But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached
unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:23, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Mystery

1 Cor.15:51 Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Rev 10:7 but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God, as he announced to his servants the prophets, should be fulfilled.

The seventh or last Trumpet

Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

The scriptures involved with the mystery are part of the Trumpet calling till we enter the vial or bowl judgments . The reaping of the earth in Rev 14 happens during the last Trumpet.

Reaping

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

Rev. 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat upon the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.”


Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Dan 12:12 Blessed is he who waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

Idk how you feel but any thoughts ?

“but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭10:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:24‬ ‭

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

new vision showing a heavenly israels struggle with Satan and the birth of the promised messiah who was raised up to Gods throne and rules creation. Satan and a third of the angels went to war and we’re cast out of heaven into earth to make war with those who have Jesus testimony in them and obey the lord

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron psalm 2) and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.


Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 7-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m saying is maybe this is why this is written to us in the church

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: ( on earth ) whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:10-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see at all what I’m poorly trying to say? Like revelation is a heavenly spiritual vision of the big picture even the then and now and forever and the seven trumpets are about what the law and prophets said was going to come bieng fulfilled which we find out is Jesus and the gospel

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the rest of the book being about the New Testament fulfillment after Jesus rose and ascended until the end

“Write the things which thou hast seen, ( past tense )

and the things which are,( johns present tense )

and the things which shall be hereafter;”( and also johns future )
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Maybe revelation is a whole picture for us To understand the present and the end but I’m the form of a spiritual vision filled with Old Testament prophetic figures from nearly every prophet of the ot