Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

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Cameron143

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And in Louisiana? https://www.workstream.us/wage-index/louisiana#:~:text=The Louisiana minimum wage is,must make up the difference. And then again there's Mississippi? https://squareup.com/us/en/the-bottom-line/managing-your-finances/mississippi-minimum-wage
Georgia,Idaho,Kentucky,Indiana,Kansas,(and a host of others) are you sure their not just pretending that there's a lot of deadbeats on food stamps when they know their jobs don't pay much and so a whole lot of people qualify because they make so little? https://www.paycom.com/resources/blog/minimum-wage-rate-by-state/
I'm in South Carolina. No one makes minimum wage. I do believe the ease of assistance and the amount does keep people from working. People getting government assistance often make more not working than working. That means we are giving too much assistance. Able-bodied people should be working. Assistance should be reserved for those who cannot work.
We've had this discussion before. I have worked 2 and 3 jobs my whole life. Why should someone who doesn't work get anything? Is it owed to them? If people get an education, get married, and don't have children until after they marry, their chances of living in poverty and practically nonexistent. This is what we should be promoting.
 

iamsoandso

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I'm in South Carolina. No one makes minimum wage. I do believe the ease of assistance and the amount does keep people from working. People getting government assistance often make more not working than working. That means we are giving too much assistance. Able-bodied people should be working. Assistance should be reserved for those who cannot work.
We've had this discussion before. I have worked 2 and 3 jobs my whole life. Why should someone who doesn't work get anything? Is it owed to them? If people get an education, get married, and don't have children until after they marry, their chances of living in poverty and practically nonexistent. This is what we should be promoting.

My friend the alternate news is pulling the wool over you guys heads,lol... by Federal law if you are able to work you DO NOT qualify for SNAP(food stamps) or any other benefits https://www.hhs.texas.gov/services/food/snap-food-benefits https://www.hhs.texas.gov/services/food/snap-food-benefits/snap-work-rules THE ONLY PEOPLE ON BENEFITS EITHER ARE WORKING OR EXEMPT...
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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My friend the alternate news is pulling the wool over you guys heads,lol... by Federal law if you are able to work you DO NOT qualify for SNAP(food stamps) or any other benefits https://www.hhs.texas.gov/services/food/snap-food-benefits https://www.hhs.texas.gov/services/food/snap-food-benefits/snap-work-rules THE ONLY PEOPLE ON BENEFITS EITHER ARE WORKING OR EXEMPT...
SNAP is only 1 of a multitude of programs available. While what you say about SNAP is true, there is all kinds of aid given to non-working able-bodied people. Giving everyone $600 for people to stay home during Covid is one of many examples. And I know personally of a woman in DC who received over $50,000 in benefits a year.
 

Aviva

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Dec 3, 2023
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With all due respect it doesn't make it not fact either. :)



I think you may want to check the polls again.




Biden?! Yes, I'd agree with you. :)




That argument is so out in left field it's not worth discussion.



Well my husband was a Dem when we met just about 10 yrs ago. I don't have an issue with the voters, free country. My issue is with Dem policy. That's why I use my vote and my free speech to come against their views. Up to the voters to make up their own minds.




I'd say that's a slight exaggeration. But Dems have a few conspiracy theories themselves.



Murder with abortion, yes, I agree it's murder. Don't know what you mean by the second point.
I have a policy of not trying to reason with unreasonable people. If you think Biden is authoritarian or fascist then you have no grasp of what those words actually mean. Just because something is asserted does not make it true and I always weigh information on the following criteria:

1. Is it plausible.
2. Is there sufficient evidence to back up the claim.
3. is the evidence from a reliable source.

I also have a policy which many of you here don't, and that is to treat everyone the same and hold everyone to the same standards. ZNP along with many of you apply the following standards:

If it is bad about Biden, Democrats, "liberals" or any other outgroup then it is treated as absolute truth no matter how extreme, how odious the claim or how flimsy the evidence. If it is bad about Trump or any other right wing hero then it's treated as automatically false no matter how strong the evidence. It's hypocrisy and double standards in the extreme.

I'm a conservative Orthodox Jew. I care about family values and trying to enact principles consistent with the values G-d has enshrined in the Torah. There are "liberal" politicians where I'm from that I'll never vote for, but that does not mean I go around calling them murderers or sexual deviants... unless it's actually true and well proven. If you do not believe in truth, do not give people the benefit of the doubt or show mercy then G-d will not show you mercy either. This is not my opinion this is his own words. Leviticus 19:18 says to love your neighbour (lit. fellow Israelite). I would not want someone to slander me, spread gossip or defame me just because they didn't like me, my politics or my religious values therefore I do not do it to others. It's also a blatant violation of the ninth commandment about false witness because if what you're saying turns out to be false, you are now a liar. Whether you knew it was a lie or not is irrelevant, you still participated in spreading the poison which is why G-d forbids gossiping. This is a G-d given commandment and principle many of you who claim to love him have lost.

In addition this is what you said:

This isn't true of everyone that supports Trump. Canada has a man similar to him rising in the polls there. At some point, if Trump is so horrible, you have to stop and ask yourself why so many people with so many varied backgrounds are willing to vote for him. Why he is so far ahead of everyone else.
My answer was people also supported Hitler, Pol Pot and Mussolini... some of the worst people who ever lived. Just because people support someone doesn't mean anything. How is this out of left field? There are lots of leaders in the world who, in my opinion or by irrefutable statistical fact, were terrible at their jobs that still had high approval. Sometimes charisma really does make a difference.

Trump is at 47% and Biden is at 43... I wouldn't be bragging were I either of them. Just because Trump is very popular in your personal circle does not mean it's the same everywhere else. I also never said democrats or liberals don't do conspiracy theories... they absolutely do and I hate it just as much from them.

I work in the entertainment business and those of us not in that bubble saw Trump's win coming a mile away in 2016. But all the people in the entertainment business refused to see it because no one in their sphere liked him or could imagine voting for the guy. That's why they were so amazed at his victory. You have to get out of said bubble and talk to people.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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SNAP is only 1 of a multitude of programs available. While what you say about SNAP is true, there is all kinds of aid given to non-working able-bodied people. Giving everyone $600 for people to stay home during Covid is one of many examples. And I know personally of a woman in DC who received over $50,000 in benefits a year.

Okay you caught me off guard on the 600.00 in extra unemployment in the Cares Act but that ended in 2021 in most states. I guess if Trump ends up at any of the 2024 debates we should ask him who he thought would pay all that back?
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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I divided a trillion by the total population of the United States and we can balance the budget if everyone chips in $3,000.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Exactly, more like a bull in a china shop really . rofl She didn't even see her first job all the way through. I just don't believe she is sincere.
But the question Is what In your opinion Is a RINO(Republican In Name Only)?Many of those that support Donald Trump believe that a RINO Is someone who Is a republican and they are now disagreeing with Donald Trump.
 

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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Fascism

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Led by a Dictator -- neither Trump nor Biden can have their presidency characterized as being a "dictator with complete power" but I can certainly agree that of the two Trump is the one more likely and more capable of becoming a dictator. However, Obama should not be ignored and if Michelle were to run then I think this would be a valid discussion.

Forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism -- We have the receipts. Facebook, Youtube, Google, and Twitter all shadow banned, de monetized, suspended, and otherwise censored opposition and criticism at the request of the DOJ, FBI, and alphabet agencies of the US government. Trump was not responsible for this, he was the target of this. He was investigated for 3 years by Mueller, there were two impeachments, and 91 indictments, all political, all hypocritical, and all as a way of suppressing opposition.

Regimenting all industry, commerce -- the clearest example of this was the vaccine mandate and that was done by the Biden administration. Yes, Trump was involved in bringing a vaccine to the market in record time during a pandemic, that is what we would hope to see in a war time president. That is similar to FDR's response to Pearl Harbor. But the vaccine mandate of an EUA vaccine, firing people if they didn't comply, not providing all the research on the vaccine to those who had agreed to take it waving their rights to sue, that was by definition fascist.

Emphasizing an aggressive nationalism -- That is a very clear reference to Trump and "make America great again". This is the only reason that anyone can use to claim he is fascist, that he is a nationalist. The accurate and precise word for someone who is nationalist without taking any authoritarian measures is "populist". Yes, no one can become a dictator of a fascist regime without being popular, but populist and nationalist are not the same thing.

Often racist -- The only person with racist policies is Biden. He was closely involved in the two most racist bills the US ever passed. The only person with racist quotes is Biden. They have gone onto the street asking random people from the inner city "if these quotes from Trump are racist" and everyone agrees, they are totally racist only to then learn they are actually quotes from Biden. This is why Chicago and NYC now have dynamic campaigns for Trump to turn those two democratic strongholds red.

In conclusion, we should be alarmed at many things that Biden has done. Labelling parents at School board meetings domestic terrorists, that is fascist, using the DOJ to go after political opponents, that is what a Dictator does, calling 75 million Americans who voted for Trump "domestic terrorists" that is abhorrent. Mandating the EUA vaccine without providing all the research and despite the fact there were effective treatments was criminal.

We should also be wary of Trump's popularity that it doesn't lead to abuse of power.

There is no doubt that Trump has said things that are disturbing and unorthodox. I have repeatedly likened him to the jawbone of an ass that Samson used to slay the Philistines.

But we should be far more alarmed at the things that Biden has done. He brazenly lied to us about Hunter Biden's criminal activities during the Presidential debate. He lied about his involvement in those activities. Those lies are far more heinous than the lie Clinton told which led to his impeachment. I think it is crucial that we keep up the pressure because everyone knows if this were any other president, Clinton or Trump, they would have been impeached and removed a long time ago.

The DOJ indicted Hunter Biden on 9 counts based on the laptop which they had one year before the election. Think of that, they could have indicted him any time in the last 8 years but they wait until he is subpoena'd to a closed door hearing to keep him from testifying. This should be very alarming to all Americans. Donald Trump was impeached because he wanted to investigate what was going on in Ukraine, something he is obligated to do by law, and as it turns out may be tied to bioweapons labs being run by the US in Ukraine which could have been responsible for the pandemic. We don't have all the facts, but both the Russians and the Chinese have made these claims to the UN and we are idiots and fools if we don't take them seriously and investigate.

Finally, consider this, why is someone who isn't even an American and won't vote in this election so heavily invested in this debate? She claims she has come to our forum to answer questions about being an Orthodox Jew, questions no one had been asking. I have asked her 5 questions about what Orthodox Jews believe and think and she has ignored all 5 despite starting a thread to answer questions. Is that just a cover for her interest in trying to bash Trump? Can anyone really believe that an "orthodox Jew" who "can't show their elbows in public" would support abortion up to the time of birth?
 

ZNP

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ZNP

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‘Bunch of Lies’: Fact-Checking Biden’s Claims Amid Impeachment Inquiry

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/12...cking-bidens-claims-amid-impeachment-inquiry/

Just days after the indictment of Hunter Biden, the House is poised to advance its impeachment inquiry scrutinizing the actions of President Joe Biden.

Biden, the White House, and Democrats have continued to say that the president has no links to son Hunter Biden’s business ventures.

As the House draws closer to formalizing the inquiry as an impeachment investigation, the president has doubled down on denials that he was involved with his close relatives’ overseas business deals.

Biden’s continued denials contradict evidence released by the House Oversight and Accountability Committee, as well as testimony from two IRS whistleblowers and one of his son’s business partners.


The House Rules Committee is scheduled to vote Tuesday on sending a resolution on impeachment to the full House floor.

Here’s some fact-checking on Biden’s persistent denials.

‘Never Discussed With My Son’
Last Wednesday, a reporter asked Biden: “Can you explain to Americans amid this impeachment inquiry why you interacted with so many of your son’s and brother’s foreign business associates?”

Biden called the assertions “lies.”

“I’m not going to comment,” he said at first, then added: “I did not. That’s just a bunch of lies. I did not. They are lies.”

House Oversight Chairman James Comer, R-Ky., responded in a post on X, writing that while Biden was Barack Obama’s vice president he “Dined at Cafe Milano with oligarchs from around the world that sent his son money.”

Just days after the indictment of Hunter Biden, the House is poised to advance its impeachment inquiry scrutinizing the actions of President Joe Biden.

Biden, the White House, and Democrats have continued to say that the president has no links to son Hunter Biden’s business ventures.

As the House draws closer to formalizing the inquiry as an impeachment investigation, the president has doubled down on denials that he was involved with his close relatives’ overseas business deals.

Biden’s continued denials contradict evidence released by the House Oversight and Accountability Committee, as well as testimony from two IRS whistleblowers and one of his son’s business partners.


The House Rules Committee is scheduled to vote Tuesday on sending a resolution on impeachment to the full House floor.

Here’s some fact-checking on Biden’s persistent denials.
 

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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continued...

‘Never Discussed With My Son’

Last Wednesday, a reporter asked Biden: “Can you explain to Americans amid this impeachment inquiry why you interacted with so many of your son’s and brother’s foreign business associates?”

Biden called the assertions “lies.”

“I’m not going to comment,” he said at first, then added: “I did not. That’s just a bunch of lies. I did not. They are lies.”

House Oversight Chairman James Comer, R-Ky., responded in a post on X, writing that while Biden was Barack Obama’s vice president he “Dined at Cafe Milano with oligarchs from around the world that sent his son money.”

In 2019, when questions emerged about business ventures by Joe Biden’s son Hunter and brother James, the then-presidential candidate denied he had been involved in discussions about them.

“First of all, I have never discussed with my son, or my brother, or anyone else, anything having to do with their businesses, period,” candidate Biden said on Aug. 28, 2019.

“What I will do is the same thing we did in our [Obama-Biden] administration,” he said. “There will be an absolute wall between the personal and private, and the government. There wasn’t any hint of scandal at all when we were there. And I will impose the same kind of strict, strict rules. That is why I have never talked with my son or my brother, or anyone else in the distant family, about their business interests, period.”

Biden repeated this assertion several times during the presidential campaign that led to his victory over incumbent Donald Trump.

However, in a deposition to the oversight committee staff, Hunter Biden’s former business partner, Devon Archer, gave several examples of interaction between father and son.

These included a 2014 meeting between Biden, then vice president, and his son’s business associates at Cafe Milano restaurant about 2 miles northwest of the White House, and another meeting at the restaurant in 2015.

The 2014 meeting included billionaire Yelena Baturina, the widow of former Moscow Mayor Yury Luzhkov, who invested in Rosemont Seneca Thornton, one of the younger Biden’s business operations.

Archer also testified that, when vice president, Biden was on speakerphone with his son’s business associates “maybe 20 times.”

The FBI recorded an interview with Rob Walker, another associate of the Biden family, in which Walker said the elder Biden attended a meeting about CEFC, a Chinese energy company that his son was in business with.

Walker is the same Biden associate who once wrote in an email about the split of financial proceeds: “Ten [percent] held by H for the big guy.”

The “H” was presumed to stand for Hunter, and the “big guy” was presumed to be Joe Biden. (One former business partner of the president’s son, Tony Bobulinski, has said he had no doubt that Biden was “the big guy.”)

Gary Shapley, an IRS supervisory special agent who is one of the two whistleblowers, testified before the House Ways and Means Committee. At one point, Shapley read from a transcript of the FBI’s interview with Walker.

“We were at the Four Seasons and we were having lunch and he stopped in, just said hello to everybody,” Walker said in the FBI interview of the former vice president’s meeting with CEFC representatives in 2018.

“I don’t even think he drank water,” Walker said. “I think Hunter Biden said, ‘I may be trying to start a company or try to do something with these guys, and could you?’ And I think he was like, ‘If I’m around,’ and he’d show up.”

The FBI agent asked Walker, according to the transcript: “So you definitely got the feeling that that was orchestrated by Hunter Biden to have like an appearance by his dad at that meeting, just to kind of bolster your chances at making a deal work out?”

Walker answered: “Sure.”

The FBI agent followed up by asking: “Any times when he [the elder Biden] was in office, or did you hear Hunter Biden say that he was setting up a meeting with his dad with them while Dad was still in office?”

Walker answered: “Yes.”

According to Shapley’s testimony, evidence showed that on July 30, 2017, Hunter Biden demanded payment of $10 million from CEFC, the Chinese energy company, in a WhatsApp message to CEFC executive Raymond Zhao. In the same message, the younger Biden claimed that his father was seated “next to” him at the time.

“I am sitting here with my father and we would like to understand why the commitment made has not been fulfilled,” the WhatsApp message shows Hunter Biden writing. The younger Biden adds:

“Tell the director that I would like to resolve this now before it gets out of hand, and now means tonight. And, Z, if I get a call or text from anyone involved in this other than you, Zhang [Jianjun Zang, CEFC’s executive director], or the chairman, I will make certain that between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge that you will regret not following my direction. I am sitting here waiting for the call with my father.”

On Dec. 5, the House Ways and Means Committee released 327 emails that showed that while serving as vice president, Joe Biden used aliases to correspond directly with his son’s business associates.

Of those, 54 emails were exclusively between Joe Biden and one of Hunter Biden’s business partners, Eric Schwerin, who was in charge of structuring the Biden family’s various shell companies.

Another 38 emails were sent from White House staffers to an email account in the name of an alias for Joe Biden, with copies to Hunter Biden.

Just days after the indictment of Hunter Biden, the House is poised to advance its impeachment inquiry scrutinizing the actions of President Joe Biden.

Biden, the White House, and Democrats have continued to say that the president has no links to son Hunter Biden’s business ventures.

As the House draws closer to formalizing the inquiry as an impeachment investigation, the president has doubled down on denials that he was involved with his close relatives’ overseas business deals.

Biden’s continued denials contradict evidence released by the House Oversight and Accountability Committee, as well as testimony from two IRS whistleblowers and one of his son’s business partners.


The House Rules Committee is scheduled to vote Tuesday on sending a resolution on impeachment to the full House floor.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,148
6,528
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continued...


Here’s some fact-checking on Biden’s persistent denials.

‘Never Discussed With My Son’
Last Wednesday, a reporter asked Biden: “Can you explain to Americans amid this impeachment inquiry why you interacted with so many of your son’s and brother’s foreign business associates?”

Biden called the assertions “lies.”

“I’m not going to comment,” he said at first, then added: “I did not. That’s just a bunch of lies. I did not. They are lies.”

House Oversight Chairman James Comer, R-Ky., responded in a post on X, writing that while Biden was Barack Obama’s vice president he “Dined at Cafe Milano with oligarchs from around the world that sent his son money.”


In 2019, when questions emerged about business ventures by Joe Biden’s son Hunter and brother James, the then-presidential candidate denied he had been involved in discussions about them.

“First of all, I have never discussed with my son, or my brother, or anyone else, anything having to do with their businesses, period,” candidate Biden said on Aug. 28, 2019.

“What I will do is the same thing we did in our [Obama-Biden] administration,” he said. “There will be an absolute wall between the personal and private, and the government. There wasn’t any hint of scandal at all when we were there. And I will impose the same kind of strict, strict rules. That is why I have never talked with my son or my brother, or anyone else in the distant family, about their business interests, period.”

Biden repeated this assertion several times during the presidential campaign that led to his victory over incumbent Donald Trump.

However, in a deposition to the oversight committee staff, Hunter Biden’s former business partner, Devon Archer, gave several examples of interaction between father and son.

These included a 2014 meeting between Biden, then vice president, and his son’s business associates at Cafe Milano restaurant about 2 miles northwest of the White House, and another meeting at the restaurant in 2015.

The 2014 meeting included billionaire Yelena Baturina, the widow of former Moscow Mayor Yury Luzhkov, who invested in Rosemont Seneca Thornton, one of the younger Biden’s business operations.

Archer also testified that, when vice president, Biden was on speakerphone with his son’s business associates “maybe 20 times.”

The FBI recorded an interview with Rob Walker, another associate of the Biden family, in which Walker said the elder Biden attended a meeting about CEFC, a Chinese energy company that his son was in business with.

Walker is the same Biden associate who once wrote in an email about the split of financial proceeds: “Ten [percent] held by H for the big guy.”

The “H” was presumed to stand for Hunter, and the “big guy” was presumed to be Joe Biden. (One former business partner of the president’s son, Tony Bobulinski, has said he had no doubt that Biden was “the big guy.”)

Gary Shapley, an IRS supervisory special agent who is one of the two whistleblowers, testified before the House Ways and Means Committee. At one point, Shapley read from a transcript of the FBI’s interview with Walker.

“We were at the Four Seasons and we were having lunch and he stopped in, just said hello to everybody,” Walker said in the FBI interview of the former vice president’s meeting with CEFC representatives in 2018.

“I don’t even think he drank water,” Walker said. “I think Hunter Biden said, ‘I may be trying to start a company or try to do something with these guys, and could you?’ And I think he was like, ‘If I’m around,’ and he’d show up.”

The FBI agent asked Walker, according to the transcript: “So you definitely got the feeling that that was orchestrated by Hunter Biden to have like an appearance by his dad at that meeting, just to kind of bolster your chances at making a deal work out?”

Walker answered: “Sure.”

The FBI agent followed up by asking: “Any times when he [the elder Biden] was in office, or did you hear Hunter Biden say that he was setting up a meeting with his dad with them while Dad was still in office?”

Walker answered: “Yes.”

According to Shapley’s testimony, evidence showed that on July 30, 2017, Hunter Biden demanded payment of $10 million from CEFC, the Chinese energy company, in a WhatsApp message to CEFC executive Raymond Zhao. In the same message, the younger Biden claimed that his father was seated “next to” him at the time.

“I am sitting here with my father and we would like to understand why the commitment made has not been fulfilled,” the WhatsApp message shows Hunter Biden writing. The younger Biden adds:

“Tell the director that I would like to resolve this now before it gets out of hand, and now means tonight. And, Z, if I get a call or text from anyone involved in this other than you, Zhang [Jianjun Zang, CEFC’s executive director], or the chairman, I will make certain that between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge that you will regret not following my direction. I am sitting here waiting for the call with my father.”

On Dec. 5, the House Ways and Means Committee released 327 emails that showed that while serving as vice president, Joe Biden used aliases to correspond directly with his son’s business associates.

Of those, 54 emails were exclusively between Joe Biden and one of Hunter Biden’s business partners, Eric Schwerin, who was in charge of structuring the Biden family’s various shell companies.

Another 38 emails were sent from White House staffers to an email account in the name of an alias for Joe Biden, with copies to Hunter Biden.


‘No Evidence That President Biden Was Involved’
Democrats and left-leaning news outlets consistently have relied on the line that even if Hunter Biden did something wrong, nothing links that wrongdoing to Joe Biden.

Rep. Dan Goldman, D-N.Y., a member of the House Oversight and Accountability Committee, told MSNBC last week: “There is no evidence, none whatsoever, and I don’t care how much they say otherwise, I have looked at it, there is no direct evidence that President Biden was involved in any way, shape, or form in Hunter Biden’s business dealings.”

NBC’s “Meet the Press” host Kristen Welker said on the air Sunday: “Republicans are moving to open an impeachment inquiry into President Biden despite there not being a link yet.”

However, the House Oversight and Accountability Committee has produced at least three examples of payments to Joe Biden that were connected to business deals cut by Hunter Biden and other family members.

The committee last week released bank records that showed his son’s company, Owasco PC, made direct monthly payments to Joe Biden in 2018, each for less than $1,400.

Abbe Lowell, an attorney for Hunter Biden, said in a formal statement to The Hill that these payments were for a truck.

“The truth is Hunter’s father helped him when he was struggling financially due to his addiction and could not secure credit to finance a truck,” Lowell said. “When Hunter was able to, he paid his father back and took over the payments himself.”

Hunter Biden is under federal investigation, allegedly for using Owasco PC’s corporate account to commit tax crimes. Owasco PC also has links to the Chinese energy company CEFC, where the younger Biden was a partner.

The committee discovered that the president’s brother, James Biden, wrote a $200,000 check in 2018 to him and noted it was a “loan repayment.” The check was cut the same day that James Biden got a $200,000 payment from a rural health care company called Americore Holdings LLC.

The panel also released bank records of a $40,000 check in 2017 to Joe Biden from James Biden and his wife Sara, which committee Republicans say is linked to China’s CEFC.

During a presidential debate with Trump on Oct. 22, 2020, Biden asserted: “My son has not made money, in terms of thing about, what are you talking about? China.”
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Fascism

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Led by a Dictator -- neither Trump nor Biden can have their presidency characterized as being a "dictator with complete power" but I can certainly agree that of the two Trump is the one more likely and more capable of becoming a dictator. However, Obama should not be ignored and if Michelle were to run then I think this would be a valid discussion.

Forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism -- We have the receipts. Facebook, Youtube, Google, and Twitter all shadow banned, de monetized, suspended, and otherwise censored opposition and criticism at the request of the DOJ, FBI, and alphabet agencies of the US government. Trump was not responsible for this, he was the target of this. He was investigated for 3 years by Mueller, there were two impeachments, and 91 indictments, all political, all hypocritical, and all as a way of suppressing opposition.

Regimenting all industry, commerce -- the clearest example of this was the vaccine mandate and that was done by the Biden administration. Yes, Trump was involved in bringing a vaccine to the market in record time during a pandemic, that is what we would hope to see in a war time president. That is similar to FDR's response to Pearl Harbor. But the vaccine mandate of an EUA vaccine, firing people if they didn't comply, not providing all the research on the vaccine to those who had agreed to take it waving their rights to sue, that was by definition fascist.

Emphasizing an aggressive nationalism -- That is a very clear reference to Trump and "make America great again". This is the only reason that anyone can use to claim he is fascist, that he is a nationalist. The accurate and precise word for someone who is nationalist without taking any authoritarian measures is "populist". Yes, no one can become a dictator of a fascist regime without being popular, but populist and nationalist are not the same thing.

Often racist -- The only person with racist policies is Biden. He was closely involved in the two most racist bills the US ever passed. The only person with racist quotes is Biden. They have gone onto the street asking random people from the inner city "if these quotes from Trump are racist" and everyone agrees, they are totally racist only to then learn they are actually quotes from Biden. This is why Chicago and NYC now have dynamic campaigns for Trump to turn those two democratic strongholds red.

In conclusion, we should be alarmed at many things that Biden has done. Labelling parents at School board meetings domestic terrorists, that is fascist, using the DOJ to go after political opponents, that is what a Dictator does, calling 75 million Americans who voted for Trump "domestic terrorists" that is abhorrent. Mandating the EUA vaccine without providing all the research and despite the fact there were effective treatments was criminal.

We should also be wary of Trump's popularity that it doesn't lead to abuse of power.

There is no doubt that Trump has said things that are disturbing and unorthodox. I have repeatedly likened him to the jawbone of an ass that Samson used to slay the Philistines.

But we should be far more alarmed at the things that Biden has done. He brazenly lied to us about Hunter Biden's criminal activities during the Presidential debate. He lied about his involvement in those activities. Those lies are far more heinous than the lie Clinton told which led to his impeachment. I think it is crucial that we keep up the pressure because everyone knows if this were any other president, Clinton or Trump, they would have been impeached and removed a long time ago.

The DOJ indicted Hunter Biden on 9 counts based on the laptop which they had one year before the election. Think of that, they could have indicted him any time in the last 8 years but they wait until he is subpoena'd to a closed door hearing to keep him from testifying. This should be very alarming to all Americans. Donald Trump was impeached because he wanted to investigate what was going on in Ukraine, something he is obligated to do by law, and as it turns out may be tied to bioweapons labs being run by the US in Ukraine which could have been responsible for the pandemic. We don't have all the facts, but both the Russians and the Chinese have made these claims to the UN and we are idiots and fools if we don't take them seriously and investigate.

Finally, consider this, why is someone who isn't even an American and won't vote in this election so heavily invested in this debate? She claims she has come to our forum to answer questions about being an Orthodox Jew, questions no one had been asking. I have asked her 5 questions about what Orthodox Jews believe and think and she has ignored all 5 despite starting a thread to answer questions. Is that just a cover for her interest in trying to bash Trump? Can anyone really believe that an "orthodox Jew" who "can't show their elbows in public" would support abortion up to the time of birth?

As long as they can keep the Texas news local and not national if not well the Texas lawmakers decided that there's nothing wrong with having meeting's,taking campaign funds ect. with known racist and Holocaust deniers... https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/02/texas-gop-antisemitism-resolution/
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
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I adamantly disagree. Government revenue almost doubled under Reagan.
I also disagree that there was corporate welfare. That is a term made up by liberals to create dissension. They received tax breaks and the tax rate was reduced.
That's what you do when you want to promote a policy...you incentivize it. Why do you think married couples get tax breaks? Why do parents get tax breaks for having children? Because as a society we were promoting marriage and children.
You don't understand the tax structure either. 50% of people in this country don't pay federal taxes. Of the 50% who do, the top 10% pay the majority of the taxes.
You have listened to liberal lies and believe the rich don't pay their fair share. The rich pay most of the taxes. You don't understand economics or what the truth concerning taxes is. You spout a bunch of liberal talking points and don't even check with reality. But it's simple: are you better off now under Biden or under Trump? Were people better off under Reagan or Carter? That's all you need to understand about economics. The ones who you are better off under know economics. The other knows politics.
If "government revenue" doubles and our national debt triples ($738 billion to $2.1 trillion from Reagans time), do you really think that is good? That is "preposterous". You don't think this was a contributor to inflation?

What you don't seem to grasp is that you can't cut taxes for corporations, continue all the entitlements the US offers, and NOT expect to go into debt. Why do you think we had to borrow so much money? Why do you think our national debt tripled? I thought only liberals thought if you run out of money, you just print more of it.

The irony is you think I don't understand economics yet you refuse to believe the data. You think growing the GDP is the only variable to consider and printing more money is a win-win for everyone. You have more in common with liberals than you think.
 

Smoke

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Oct 27, 2016
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Of course it did. Government revenue nearly doubled while personal income rose. That means wealth was created.
If you have an elementary level understanding of economics, one would think GDP is the only variable to consider. We can artificially grow GDP... in fact, we did after the financial crisis in 2008, remember? What happened in the 80s and in 2008? That's right... our national debt exponentially started growing after giving even MORE corporate welfare to businesses that were too big to fail.

I understand you probably take offense to my calling out wealthy banks and corporations that received big golden parachutes after Republicans and Democrats bailed them out. You want to pretend like corporate welfare doesn't exist... No, you go a step further and accuse this type of behavior as being something from the left in spite of George Bush being the president at the time of the bail outs.
 

Smoke

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Reagan brought in more money. The libs spent it. There was no money going to corporations. They were getting lower taxes and tax incentives.
Corporate welfare is what liberals do...give money to China to produce windmills and car companies to produce EV's.
You don't know what you are talking about.
My goodness... Yes, GDP increased.... but our national debt outpaced it. Why do you ignore this fact?
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
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I'm going to do what you do and blame the liberals whenever I don't like something or things aren't going my way. I should have used that whenever my husband came home and didn't like a purchase.

Him: "Honey, did you spend a hundred euros on an air fryer?"
Me: "It's liberal lies my love. We earned it and they spent it."

If you're going to insult people and tell them they don't know what they're talking about perhaps you should post your evidence.

I checked. Ronald Reagan almost tripled the national debt from 738 billion to 2.1 trillion.

So here's the reality, because I actually bothered to look things up:

Did Reagan have the worst growth? No, it was actually fairly okay. The economy cratered at the start but did shoot up considerably in the second half. However this came at the expense of tripling the debt... the United States went from a creditor to a debtor nation. Poverty increased and homelessness doubled. More wealth got moved upwards and the middle class suffered the most. So, the final total of income growth under Reagan was about 8%. Not awful but not the best ever.

The worst job growth was under Donald Trump. Now to be fair, some of this is certainly do to covid but even before then it was very anemic and some have argued he was coasting on the growth started under Obama. However, Obama's job growth was also weak and even though he did post about 5% income growth taxes and expenses went up even higher. So... meh.

So who was actually the worst for income and job growth? Turns out it was Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.

Who was the best? It was those well known conservative Republicans Bill Clinton followed by John F. Kennedy. In fact Bill Clinton was the last president to leave office with a surplus.

None of this is my opinion it's the official posted numbers by the Cato institute, Chamber of Commerce and so on. Check for yourselves.
I appreciate you actually looking at the data. The only part I'm more cynical about is Bill Clinton. I don't think he was an economic genius like Republicans think Reagan was. Jimmy Carter could have been president in the 90s and the dot com (.com) boom would have made him look like an economic mastermind.

Perhaps Clinton was good, but I'm not sure the data which suggests this is solid evidence considering the circumstances of the time.
 

JTB

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Aug 31, 2021
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Do you understand why these cuts are given? Did you know that cutting tax rates on businesses actually produces more revenue for the government? Do you know why?
You mean how every state that's tried it has had enormous deficits as a result? How trumps cuts added more to the US debt than any other presidential act ever?

Rich people don't create prosperity ... consumers do.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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But the question Is what In your opinion Is a RINO(Republican In Name Only)?Many of those that support Donald Trump believe that a RINO Is someone who Is a republican and they are now disagreeing with Donald Trump.
No, all joking aside, I feel like they are mostly just following Trump around and mimicking his policies. It's like they all want to be Trump lite. But then I stopped watching the horrible debates. They are mind numbing.