What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

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selahsays

selahsays

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ForestGreenCook said:
But is it not true that the only ones that will come to Jesus are the ones that his Father gave him (John 6:37).(Rom 8:28-30) (Rom 9:24)
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John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
In this verse, Jesus is referring to the election, the same ones written about in Romans 8:26-30. These are the ones that the Father has already given to Christ.

Romans 8:28-30. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Paul was a chosen vessel (Acts 9:15). Paul is saying that God will use His chosen vessels from both the Jews and the Gentiles.

…..
selah
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Kroogz said:
rogerg, it's the mystery of the Gospel. Christ crucified. We know it and believe it. Why would it have to be REVEALED to us again? Or any believer?
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Exactly. So the question is: Why did God create this earth age?
 
K

Kroogz

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selahsays said:
Exactly. So the question is: Why did God create this earth age?
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To resolve the Angelic conflict. Every time a person freely chooses the Lord Jesus Christ we reveal the Justice and Righteousness of God to the fallen angels and man. We are witnesses for God's Perfect justice,grace and mercy, love and FAIRNESS in His judgment. We put another nail in satans coffin every time someone chooses Christ. We Glorify Him when we freely choose what He has offered us.

All unbelievers and all fallen angels will be WITHOUT EXCUSE.
 
R

rogerg

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Kroogz said:
rogerg, it's the mystery of the Gospel. Christ crucified. We know it and believe it. Why would it have to be REVEALED to us again? Or any believer?
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Because there are a multitude of doctrines that need to be taught to those saved for them to obtain knowledge of them, and as Christians, as much as possible, to conform to them. The Bible is full of them. Many of the unsaved who read them mistakenly interpret them as being requirements for salvation or to remain saved.
At some point, those saved, have to be taught what is expected of them. They will take it to heart and do their best to conform to them, yet none will do so perfectly, but will know they came from God, and their salvation was/is not dependent upon it. The unsaved on the other hand, will think them folly, or not understand them, or not take them to heart. But to the degree they might try to follow them, it will be because they believe it will somehow assist in becoming or remaining saved.
Hope that makes sense.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 
R

rogerg

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Kroogz said:
To resolve the Angelic conflict. Every time a person freely chooses the Lord Jesus Christ we reveal the Justice and Righteousness of God to the fallen angels and man. We are witnesses for God's Perfect justice,grace and mercy, love and FAIRNESS in His judgment. We put another nail in satans coffin every time someone chooses Christ. We Glorify Him when we freely choose what He has offered us.

All unbelievers and all fallen angels will be WITHOUT EXCUSE.
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No, the righteousness of Christ is revealed in that His faith is imputed to those He chose for salvation, upon becoming saved:
from His faith to their faith.

[Rom 1:17 KJV] 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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rogerg said:
No, the righteousness of Christ is revealed in that His faith is imputed to those He chose for salvation, upon becoming saved:
from His faith to their faith.

[Rom 1:17 KJV] 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
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No, my friend. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

- Romans 10:9-17 (KJV)
 
T

Ted01

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Kroogz said:
rogerg, it's the mystery of the Gospel. Christ crucified. We know it and believe it. Why would it have to be REVEALED to us again? Or any believer?
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Forgive me if I misunderstand this line of questions... I do like what you're asking.
Perhaps there's a difference in what people believe "the Gospel" is? It seems that some here believe that it contains many nuances of particular doctrines that need to be fully understood...
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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selahsays said:
No, my friend. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

- Romans 10:9-17 (KJV)
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Where does hearing come from?
 
R

rogerg

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selahsays said:
No, my friend. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

- Romans 10:9-17 (KJV)
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The "for with the heart man believeth" part means they must first have been saved for that to happen. The heart is only changed from salvation. Man cannot change his own heart.

First, the "cometh" isn't actually in the verse. What it is saying is that after being saved, faith being given, it resides
within them but in hearing spiritually the gospel, it is made manifest to them. True faith is given by the Holy Spirit, which faith, is Christ's, and is righteous.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Ted01 said:
Most people are born with it... others buy it from an audiologist.
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Actually, no one is born with spiritual hearing or sight. It is all part and parcel with being born again.
 
R

rogerg

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Ted01 said:
Forgive me if I misunderstand this line of questions... I do like what you're asking.
Perhaps there's a difference in what people believe "the Gospel" is? It seems that some here believe that it contains many nuances of particular doctrines that need to be fully understood...
Click to expand...
Yes, it does.

[Eph 4:11-14 KJV]
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
 
K

Kroogz

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Ted01 said:
Forgive me if I misunderstand this line of questions... I do like what you're asking.
Perhaps there's a difference in what people believe "the Gospel" is? It seems that some here believe that it contains many nuances of particular doctrines that need to be fully understood...
Click to expand...
The mystery that was revealed to Paul. Christ crucified and faith alone in Him. The poster is saying that it doesn't go to ALL people. Just saints in Ephesus. Why does the mystery have to be revealed to folks that already believe in the Gospel?
 
K

Kroogz

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rogerg said:
Because there are a multitude of doctrines that need to be taught to those saved for them to obtain knowledge of them, and as Christians, as much as possible, to conform to them. The Bible is full of them. Many of the unsaved who read them mistakenly interpret them as being requirements for salvation or to remain saved.
At some point, those saved, have to be taught what is expected of them. They will take it to heart and do their best to conform to them, yet none will do so perfectly, but will know they came from God, and their salvation was/is not dependent upon it. The unsaved on the other hand, will think them folly, or not understand them, or not take them to heart. But to the degree they might try to follow them, it will be because they believe it will somehow assist in becoming or remaining saved.
Hope that makes sense.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Click to expand...
You are far from the topic at hand. I believe you can't deal with the topic at hand because you would have to change some of your thinking.
 
T

Ted01

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rogerg said:
Yes, it does.

[Eph 4:11-14 KJV]
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
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Thank you, Roger... so, just to be clear, you believe that the Gospel message includes much more than "Christ and Him crucified", and of course the need for repentance and to be baptized?
 
T

Ted01

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Kroogz said:
The mystery that was revealed to Paul. Christ crucified and faith alone in Him. The poster is saying that it doesn't go to ALL people. Just saints in Ephesus. Why does the mystery have to be revealed to folks that already believe in the Gospel?
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Sorry then... I didn't mean to interrupt.
 
R

rogerg

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#738
Kroogz said:
The mystery that was revealed to Paul. Christ crucified and faith alone in Him. The poster is saying that it doesn't go to ALL people. Just saints in Ephesus. Why does the mystery have to be revealed to folks that already believe in the Gospel?
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If by the "poster" you mean me, I am saying that the teaching of Christian doctrine is to go out to all Christians wherever they may be,
not just Ephesus.
 
T

Ted01

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Cameron143 said:
Actually, no one is born with spiritual hearing or sight. It is all part and parcel with being born again.
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Hey, to be fair... you didn't qualify that you were talking about spiritual hearing...
 
R

rogerg

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Ted01 said:
Thank you, Roger... so, just to be clear, you believe that the Gospel message includes much more than "Christ and Him crucified", and of course the need for repentance and to be baptized?
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Don't agree with all of the doctrine you mentioned, but yes, there are other Christian doctrines. But none as important or fundamental
as Christ, yet there to be understood and followed.
 
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