Constantine Tischendorf

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10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#1
There are those who believe they're wiser than God and also think they know more about the Jews, their language, and their history than the Jews themselves. Following is a history that describes the corruption that has occurred over the past 150 years. It begins with a man whose name is Constantine Tischendorf. It was the year 1844. The place is the Monastery of St. Catherine at Mt. Sinai in Egypt. While touring the Monastery, he noticed a wastepaper basket filled with pages of ancient manuscripts. They were all written in the old-style Greek; their pages were from the Old Testament.

Several years later, he returned. This time, it was under the sponsorship and financing of the Russian Tsar Alexander II, patron of the Greek Orthodox Church. Now, the manuscript would be under the protection of the tsar of Russia. But when Vladimir Lenin began his reign, the Russian government sold them to the British Museum. All documents date back to the fourth century. It was the time of the Arian heresy.

Also found are the oldest nearly complete manuscripts of the Bible called the Codex Vaticanus' which also dates back to the fourth century. The manuscript reported having some 15,000 changes already made by unknown hands. Yet they were used for translation by Wescott and Hort in the late 20th century. The work they produced was, for the most part, rejected, as was the work of Tischendorf. These men thought, 'Older is better,' but all it did was cause confusion in the Christian community.

But this manuscript, with all its errors, was preserved. It went from Tischendorf to Wescott and Hort, then to Nestle and Allen in 1927. From this came the Nestles and Allen text. The NIV is in its fourth copyright since the first edition came out in 1973. One would think after 120 years, their first edition would have been correct, but it wasn't. Almost all modern-day Bibles used today stemmed from these heavily altered texts. Westcott and Hort made thousands of changes to these newly acquired manuscripts. The changes included roughly 1900 omissions, 467 additions, 3185 other changes, and 4366 words added, creating almost 10,000 changes. Add to that the 15,000 thousand changes made when Tischendorf found the documents. He would have rejected them if he did not have such a big ego and desire for money and fame.

They produced a work that had a tortured translation and was highly modified. They twisted many verses in scripture with word changes and punctuation marks. These Bibles were sold to an unsuspecting community of Christians, creating a wall of separation in Denominational unity, Biblical scholarship, and Christian thinking and understanding.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,670
13,073
113
#2
These Bibles were sold to an unsuspecting community of Christians, creating a wall of separation in Denominational unity, Biblical scholarship, and Christian thinking and understanding.
This is exactly what happened.

Most Christians depend on evangelists, pastors, and teachers for the truth. But the MAJORITY of these men failed to carefully investigate the entire conspiracy against the Received Text and the King James Bible. Many well-known preachers began to promote the modern bible versions, and so the ordinary Christian was misled by the very men who should have done their due diligence.

As Dean Burgon said over 100 years ago regarding the Revised Version
"A vastly different principle has prevailed with the Revisionists. Themselves the dupes of an utterly mistaken Theory of Textual Criticism, their supreme solicitude has been to impose that same Theory,—(which is Westcott and Hort's,)—with all its bitter consequences, on the unlearned and unsuspicious public." The Revision Revised, page 141.

All modern bible versions have relied on the Critical Text of Westcott and Hort, which began in the late 19th century.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,670
13,073
113
#3
Please note: Constantine Tischendorf irrationally idolized the corrupt Codex Sinaiticus (Codex Aleph) and was willing to abandon all other manuscripts for just this one! Westcott & Hort idolized Codex Vaticanus (Codex B) in the same way, and abandoned all others.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,980
2,904
113
#4
There are those who believe they're wiser than God and also think they know more about the Jews, their language, and their history than the Jews themselves. Following is a history that describes the corruption that has occurred over the past 150 years. It begins with a man whose name is Constantine Tischendorf. It was the year 1844. The place is the Monastery of St. Catherine at Mt. Sinai in Egypt. While touring the Monastery, he noticed a wastepaper basket filled with pages of ancient manuscripts. They were all written in the old-style Greek; their pages were from the Old Testament.

Several years later, he returned. This time, it was under the sponsorship and financing of the Russian Tsar Alexander II, patron of the Greek Orthodox Church. Now, the manuscript would be under the protection of the tsar of Russia. But when Vladimir Lenin began his reign, the Russian government sold them to the British Museum. All documents date back to the fourth century. It was the time of the Arian heresy.

Also found are the oldest nearly complete manuscripts of the Bible called the Codex Vaticanus' which also dates back to the fourth century. The manuscript reported having some 15,000 changes already made by unknown hands. Yet they were used for translation by Wescott and Hort in the late 20th century. The work they produced was, for the most part, rejected, as was the work of Tischendorf. These men thought, 'Older is better,' but all it did was cause confusion in the Christian community.

But this manuscript, with all its errors, was preserved. It went from Tischendorf to Wescott and Hort, then to Nestle and Allen in 1927. From this came the Nestles and Allen text. The NIV is in its fourth copyright since the first edition came out in 1973. One would think after 120 years, their first edition would have been correct, but it wasn't. Almost all modern-day Bibles used today stemmed from these heavily altered texts. Westcott and Hort made thousands of changes to these newly acquired manuscripts. The changes included roughly 1900 omissions, 467 additions, 3185 other changes, and 4366 words added, creating almost 10,000 changes. Add to that the 15,000 thousand changes made when Tischendorf found the documents. He would have rejected them if he did not have such a big ego and desire for money and fame.

They produced a work that had a tortured translation and was highly modified. They twisted many verses in scripture with word changes and punctuation marks. These Bibles were sold to an unsuspecting community of Christians, creating a wall of separation in Denominational unity, Biblical scholarship, and Christian thinking and understanding.
On anything that matters, the various versions agree. The only interpretations that I find unacceptable are Galatians 2:20 and Mark 11:22. Literal translations of the different texts say the same as the KJV. Why the translators reject the true translation is beyond me. The KJV is fine for those who grew up with it. I was born in 1951, not 1611. I speak 1950's English, not 17th century. Word meanings have changed. When I first was saved, preachers were constantly explaining where the KJV was not comprehensible to someone like me. I love God's word. I ended up buying a bunch of versions. Currently, I am drawn to the Berean. I use Bible Hub. That gives me way more versions than I need.

More importantly, I have the Holy Spirit to lead me into the Truth. It helps to remember that Jesus is the Truth, He is God's Word, the complete revelation of God. The Bible is God's word to be studied, edified, convicted if necessary and to be established in truth. It is not an instruction manual. It is a treasure map to lead us to the greatest treasure of all, our lord Jesus.
 
Apr 27, 2023
538
39
28
#5
There are those who believe they're wiser than God and also think they know more about the Jews, their language, and their history than the Jews themselves. Following is a history that describes the corruption that has occurred over the past 150 years. It begins with a man whose name is Constantine Tischendorf. It was the year 1844. The place is the Monastery of St. Catherine at Mt. Sinai in Egypt. While touring the Monastery, he noticed a wastepaper basket filled with pages of ancient manuscripts. They were all written in the old-style Greek; their pages were from the Old Testament.

Several years later, he returned. This time, it was under the sponsorship and financing of the Russian Tsar Alexander II, patron of the Greek Orthodox Church. Now, the manuscript would be under the protection of the tsar of Russia. But when Vladimir Lenin began his reign, the Russian government sold them to the British Museum. All documents date back to the fourth century. It was the time of the Arian heresy.

Also found are the oldest nearly complete manuscripts of the Bible called the Codex Vaticanus' which also dates back to the fourth century. The manuscript reported having some 15,000 changes already made by unknown hands. Yet they were used for translation by Wescott and Hort in the late 20th century. The work they produced was, for the most part, rejected, as was the work of Tischendorf. These men thought, 'Older is better,' but all it did was cause confusion in the Christian community.

But this manuscript, with all its errors, was preserved. It went from Tischendorf to Wescott and Hort, then to Nestle and Allen in 1927. From this came the Nestles and Allen text. The NIV is in its fourth copyright since the first edition came out in 1973. One would think after 120 years, their first edition would have been correct, but it wasn't. Almost all modern-day Bibles used today stemmed from these heavily altered texts. Westcott and Hort made thousands of changes to these newly acquired manuscripts. The changes included roughly 1900 omissions, 467 additions, 3185 other changes, and 4366 words added, creating almost 10,000 changes. Add to that the 15,000 thousand changes made when Tischendorf found the documents. He would have rejected them if he did not have such a big ego and desire for money and fame.

They produced a work that had a tortured translation and was highly modified. They twisted many verses in scripture with word changes and punctuation marks. These Bibles were sold to an unsuspecting community of Christians, creating a wall of separation in Denominational unity, Biblical scholarship, and Christian thinking and understanding.
It was found rather conveniently and is not carbon-dated.
 
Apr 27, 2023
538
39
28
#6
Please note: Constantine Tischendorf irrationally idolized the corrupt Codex Sinaiticus (Codex Aleph) and was willing to abandon all other manuscripts for just this one! Westcott & Hort idolized Codex Vaticanus (Codex B) in the same way, and abandoned all others.
I would like to know more about the origins of Vaticanus. I suspect it is also a big fraud.
 
Apr 27, 2023
538
39
28
#8
But the MAJORITY of these men failed to carefully investigate the entire conspiracy against the Received Text and the King James Bible.
I doubt it is more than scholarship, and archeology fraud.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,670
13,073
113
#10
I would like to know more about the origins of Vaticanus. I suspect it is also a big fraud.
Check Scrivener's A Plain Introduction to the Textual Criticism of the New Testament (Vols I & 2).
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#12
On anything that matters, the various versions agree. The only interpretations that I find unacceptable are Galatians 2:20 and Mark 11:22. Literal translations of the different texts say the same as the KJV. Why the translators reject the true translation is beyond me. The KJV is fine for those who grew up with it. I was born in 1951, not 1611. I speak 1950's English, not 17th century. Word meanings have changed. When I first was saved, preachers were constantly explaining where the KJV was not comprehensible to someone like me. I love God's word. I ended up buying a bunch of versions. Currently, I am drawn to the Berean. I use Bible Hub. That gives me way more versions than I need.

More importantly, I have the Holy Spirit to lead me into the Truth. It helps to remember that Jesus is the Truth, He is God's Word, the complete revelation of God. The Bible is God's word to be studied, edified, convicted if necessary and to be established in truth. It is not an instruction manual. It is a treasure map to lead us to the greatest treasure of all, our lord Jesus.
You wrote, "Word meanings have changed."

True, but God's word hasn't changed. That's what concordances, and Lexicon's are for, to investigate what the ancient language words mean in todays corrupted English. John 5:39, "Search the scriptures;" Search means to investigate to explore. Of course, it does take a little time and energy, two ingredients many people lack.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#13
It was found rather conveniently and is not carbon-dated.
Forget carbon-dating, 15,000 changes already made should have been enough for the man to toss them into the furnace. I truly believe these manuscripts are the work of the followers of Arius.
 
Apr 27, 2023
538
39
28
#14
Forget carbon-dating, 15,000 changes already made should have been enough for the man to toss them into the furnace. I truly believe these manuscripts are the work of the followers of Arius.
As if. Carbon-date them, and you will find that they are not any old than the cursives or the minuscules.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,980
2,904
113
#15
You wrote, "Word meanings have changed."

True, but God's word hasn't changed. That's what concordances, and Lexicon's are for, to investigate what the ancient language words mean in todays corrupted English. John 5:39, "Search the scriptures;" Search means to investigate to explore. Of course, it does take a little time and energy, two ingredients many people lack.
Not so much now, but I used to spend hours a day in God's word. I've read countless books on many spiritual matters. "Search the scriptures is a bad idea". The Pharisees did that and missed the point entirely. The scriptures, i.e. the OT, speak of Jesus. In all their searching, the Jewish scholars missed the truth.

Many Christians search the scriptures with the same wrong attitude. They do not see Jesus. They see the law, which is God's dealings with Israel, not the Gentiles. They see God's wrath and judgement, again part of His covenant with Israel. They are not focused on God's mercy and grace. Some have an obsession with worldly affairs, conspiracy theories and such. How edifying is that? Some see the Bible as a handbook for Christian living, which it is not.

The version of the Bible people use is between them and God. I've owned the KJV, RSV, NASB, NIV, NEB (New English Bible), Berkley, Amplified, NKJV and the Good News. I would like to know what vitally important doctrine is not found in any of those versions. I ditched the incomprehensible KJV and the Good News Bible I was no happy with. Oddly enough, it was stolen from my car. Maybe someone was saved through it.

In all this, Christians need to remember that Jesus is the Word of God. The written word should point us to the "Living Word". We have the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. Again, Truth is a Person and his name is Jesus.

"Corrupted English"? What is that supposed to mean? English is a monstrous combination of French, Latin, Greek, Old English and bears little relation to the language spoken by Wycliffe, for example. It's continually changing and not for the better. English was my best subject at school. What passes for education now leaves many students more or less illiterate. In Australia, many students have to take remedial classes prior to going to University. So what version of the Bible should they be reading? One written in the 17th century? I don't think so.
 

Kroogz

Active member
Dec 5, 2023
596
209
43
#16
They are not focused on God's mercy and grace. Some have an obsession with worldly affairs, conspiracy theories and such. How edifying is that? Some see the Bible as a handbook for Christian living, which it is not.
A double amen to this brother. As goes believers/His body/His church, so goes the family, communities, nations.IMO, His Grace and mercy needs to come back center stage and quick like.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#17
Not so much now, but I used to spend hours a day in God's word. I've read countless books on many spiritual matters. "Search the scriptures is a bad idea". The Pharisees did that and missed the point entirely. The scriptures, i.e. the OT, speak of Jesus. In all their searching, the Jewish scholars missed the truth.

Many Christians search the scriptures with the same wrong attitude. They do not see Jesus. They see the law, which is God's dealings with Israel, not the Gentiles. They see God's wrath and judgement, again part of His covenant with Israel. They are not focused on God's mercy and grace. Some have an obsession with worldly affairs, conspiracy theories and such. How edifying is that? Some see the Bible as a handbook for Christian living, which it is not.

The version of the Bible people use is between them and God. I've owned the KJV, RSV, NASB, NIV, NEB (New English Bible), Berkley, Amplified, NKJV and the Good News. I would like to know what vitally important doctrine is not found in any of those versions. I ditched the incomprehensible KJV and the Good News Bible I was no happy with. Oddly enough, it was stolen from my car. Maybe someone was saved through it.

In all this, Christians need to remember that Jesus is the Word of God. The written word should point us to the "Living Word". We have the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. Again, Truth is a Person and his name is Jesus.

"Corrupted English"? What is that supposed to mean? English is a monstrous combination of French, Latin, Greek, Old English and bears little relation to the language spoken by Wycliffe, for example. It's continually changing and not for the better. English was my best subject at school. What passes for education now leaves many students more or less illiterate. In Australia, many students have to take remedial classes prior to going to University. So what version of the Bible should they be reading? One written in the 17th century? I don't think so.
Concerning your question, "I would like to know what vitally important doctrine is not found in any of those versions." I'll get back to you on that one.

You also asked, what do I mean by corrupted English? Your next two sentences answered the question. You know, languages go through many stages, but the root of a word is noted as the Golden age, it being the historical base; pure and in its prime. Now because of mass migration, wars; breaking up of countries; merging of people in cities like New York, it usually produces changes in the meaning of words.

The language of the N.T. is the later Greek. This later form of Greek was spoken mainly by Jews. The Greek tongue they spoke was applied by them to subjects on which it had never been applied by native Greek writers. So, what was the character of this idiom spoken? It was Jewish terms, and words used in their religion.

Christianity has its' own idioms concerning salvation. It's a language of hope, unheard of and misunderstood by the outside world.
Therefore, the meaning of particular Greek words used by the religious Hebrew’s was understood only by those who practiced that particular religion. The same holds true for Christians. It was a new understanding of words used by Greek writers, taken from old law, culture, and procedure. It was needed, and it had to be taken from the language spoken at that period of time, that language being Greek.

The writers of the N.T. except for Paul, and Luke, were not well educated. Like the rest of the general population, they knew the Greek language only from their daily intercourse of and with common everyday life. With these writers, the Hebrew element of that language was mingled within their form of daily talk and would naturally have great prominence in their writing. The differences lie in the turn of a thought, or in the thought itself, rather than in the expression. Even where a verse is modeled after the Hebrew, it is seen more in the construction and in the connection of words both in phrases and sentences. No Greek writer had ever written on Jewish affairs, or on Jewish theology, its ritual or history.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,980
2,904
113
#18
Concerning your question, "I would like to know what vitally important doctrine is not found in any of those versions." I'll get back to you on that one.

You also asked, what do I mean by corrupted English? Your next two sentences answered the question. You know, languages go through many stages, but the root of a word is noted as the Golden age, it being the historical base; pure and in its prime. Now because of mass migration, wars; breaking up of countries; merging of people in cities like New York, it usually produces changes in the meaning of words.

The language of the N.T. is the later Greek. This later form of Greek was spoken mainly by Jews. The Greek tongue they spoke was applied by them to subjects on which it had never been applied by native Greek writers. So, what was the character of this idiom spoken? It was Jewish terms, and words used in their religion.

Christianity has its' own idioms concerning salvation. It's a language of hope, unheard of and misunderstood by the outside world.
Therefore, the meaning of particular Greek words used by the religious Hebrew’s was understood only by those who practiced that particular religion. The same holds true for Christians. It was a new understanding of words used by Greek writers, taken from old law, culture, and procedure. It was needed, and it had to be taken from the language spoken at that period of time, that language being Greek.

The writers of the N.T. except for Paul, and Luke, were not well educated. Like the rest of the general population, they knew the Greek language only from their daily intercourse of and with common everyday life. With these writers, the Hebrew element of that language was mingled within their form of daily talk and would naturally have great prominence in their writing. The differences lie in the turn of a thought, or in the thought itself, rather than in the expression. Even where a verse is modeled after the Hebrew, it is seen more in the construction and in the connection of words both in phrases and sentences. No Greek writer had ever written on Jewish affairs, or on Jewish theology, its ritual or history.
Your comment was about the "corrupted" English language, not Greek. That was what my reply addressed. You have not answered it. There is no "golden age" of English. I am far more comfortable with the writings of Dickens than with Shakespeare. I see no need to learn Elizabethan language in order to understand the Bible. Some may differ. It is also absurd that there is an underlying assumption that Christianity is the domain of English speakers only.