God, math and science

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#1
For what purpose is math? A question rarely asked. Was it our Creator’s intention to give us a more complete understanding of the magnificence and perfection of creation? And was it His intent for a real-life application of every form of mathematics?
Without Math, there would be no science, music, art, engineering, architecture, business, commerce, trade, internet banking with cryptology, medicine, computers, animation, fashion design, aeronautics, astronautics, agriculture, and astrology. Math is part of all these things. Mathematics is the language of God’s creation.

Paul wrote Colossians 1:16, “For by him (Jesus Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

God has given us the ability and skills to create symbols representing real-life principles called addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, etc., each a part of his creation.

Has mathematics been written in the word of God? There are unique numerical patterns in nature that could only have been worked into the creation by a designer Creator.

Ivan Panin, a Russian emigrant to the United States, achieved fame for discovering numeric patterns in the Hebrew and Greek Bible text and for his published work based on his subsequent research called “Bible Numerics.”

Also, we need to note that many scientists were Christians.
Fibonacci was an Italian mathematician and considered “the most talented Western mathematician of the Middle Ages. Sir Isaac Newton was an English mathematician, physicist, astronomer, theologian, and author recognized as a critical figure in the scientific revolution. His book laid the foundations of classical mechanics. Newton also contributed to optics and shares credit for developing the infinitesimal calculus.

Galileo has been called the “father of observational astronomy,” the “father of modern physics,” the “father of the scientific method,” and the “father of modern science.” Nicolaus Copernicus was a Renaissance-era mathematician and astronomer who formulated a model of the universe that placed the Sun rather than the Earth at the center of the universe.

Pascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer, and Catholic theologian. Johannes Keppler was a German mathematician, astronomer, and astrologer. Kepler was a crucial figure in the 17th-century scientific revolution. He is best known for his laws of planetary motion. Carl Linnaeus, a Swedish botanist, physician, and zoologist, formalized binomial nomenclature, the modern system of naming organisms.

Robert Boyle was a philosopher, chemist, physicist, and inventor. Boyle is regarded today as the first modern chemist and, therefore, one of the founders of modern chemistry and a pioneer of the contemporary experimental scientific method. He is best known for Boyle’s law. Louis Pasteur was a French biologist, microbiologist, and chemist renowned for his discoveries of the principles of vaccination, microbial fermentation, and pasteurization. He created the first vaccines for rabies and anthrax. His discoveries directly supported the germ theory of disease and its application in clinical medicine. He is best known for treating milk and wine to stop bacterial contamination, a process called pasteurization. He is regarded as one of the three principal founders of bacteriology and is popularly known as the “father of microbiology.”

There was also Jean Henri Fabre, Michal Faraday, and John Ambrose Fleming, Isaac Newton had also spent many years of research on the subject of “Numerics in the Bible.” Many incredible patterns are present throughout nature, Fibonacci numbers being one of the more well-known.

There is such an astonishing design in nature and the universe that it would be almost impossible to list them all. Still, we can see God’s hand in their ratios, distances, balances, arrangements, and proportions.

Hebrews 11:3, “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

God is a God of order, and His Word is perfect. As we see patterns all around, so does His Word, which contains patterns and numbers demonstrating His design and plans.

1 Corinthians 13:12, “For now we see through a glass darkly (dimly); but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”

The universe began when God spoke the following words over 6000 Years ago, “Let there be–.”

Edwin Hubble discovered that the universe is expanding. David wrote 3000 years ago,
Psalms 104:2, God, “Who stretches out (expanded) the heavens like a curtain:”

Isaiah 40:22, "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth."

As far as we know, in the universe, the smallest is our solar system, and space itself has properties such as dimensions, making it a mathematical structure.

Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:9, “Eye hath not seen, or ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.”

Genesis 1:31, “And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.”
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,981
1,406
113
Midwest
#2
was it His intent for a real-life application of every form of mathematics?
Amen! Thanks So Much for sharing this wonderful information.

I Certainly Give Thanks Unto Him for Helping me with "His Math" in my
own Bible studies which has Certainly gotten me Out of confusion - ie:

1) Righty Dividing His Word Of Truth, For His Approval:

2) Two different 'Programs/Purposes' which have Biblical

3) One [ Current ] Baptism as compared to Two [ former ] baptisms
Praise His Holy Name.

Amen.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,556
12,996
113
#3
As far as we know, in the universe, the smallest is our solar system, and space itself has properties such as dimensions, making it a mathematical structure.
God has woven mathematics into every aspect of creation. That is an amazing truth which rarely gets the attention it deserves. And within the Bible God has given certain numbers a spiritual dimension.

"[E.W.] Bullinger's classic work, Number in Scripture, is an invaluable guide to the study of Bible Numerics. Bullinger's two-fold approach to the subject first examines the supernatural design of the Bible. He notes the amazing patterns of numbers and numerical features of the Scriptures that give evidence of their Designer."

 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,601
3,186
113
#4
"It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but the glory of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
3,332
1,138
113
46
#6
You know, you had a pretty good post here, very informative, encompassing a lot of history and important names but then you had to say this and it made me laugh.
You are a very interesting person Philip. God bless you sir. :D

The universe began when God spoke the following words over 6000 Years ago, “Let there be–.”
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
3,332
1,138
113
46
#8
@Eli1 millions or billions is greater than 6,000... .:unsure::giggle:
I know what you're thinking. You're thinking that Philip is expressing himself like Presidente, using centuries to measure time like we're Methusaleh.
"At the turn of the millennium, i met my wife and we got married. It was a glorious time back then, we didn't even have TVs"

But no, you know what this is. It's the special number 6000 which signifies years of creation. You know what that is, come on. :LOL:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,168
26,221
113
#9
I know what you're thinking. You're thinking that Philip is expressing himself like Presidente, using centuries to measure time like we're Methusaleh.
"At the turn of the millennium, i met my wife and we got married. It was a glorious time back then, we didn't even have TVs"

But no, you know what this is. It's the special number 6000 which signifies years of creation. You know what that is, come on. :LOL:
What I was thinking concerned the age-old debate about the age of the Earth, and I do not normally get involved in these types of discussions, though I did hear a very interesting radio program last weekend (I think it was last weekend?) presented by the Institute for Creation Science, wherein it was stated that scientists insert numbers into their equations when the numbers are actually an unknown, and of course, they do this to prop up their theories, because they do not believe in God. This is not to say all scientists are atheists/ agnostics/ unbelievers, no, not at all, for I am well aware that many scientists are also theists, and even Christian. A while back I was watching a Netflix series presented by that Science Guy, Bill Nye, and I found it quite informative and amusing until he started to mock Biblical creation ideas... He even went so far as to say that evolution is not just a theory but proven, and I do not believe that at all. This is not to say that species do not adapt. But one species has never morphed into another as far as I know.

 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
3,332
1,138
113
46
#10
What I was thinking concerned the age-old debate about the age of the Earth, and I do not normally get involved in these types of discussions, though I did hear a very interesting radio program last weekend (I think it was last weekend?) presented by the Institute for Creation Science, wherein it was stated that scientists insert numbers into their equations when the numbers are actually an unknown, and of course, they do this to prop up their theories, because they do not believe in God. This is not to say all scientists are atheists/ agnostics/ unbelievers, no, not at all, for I am well aware that many scientists are also theists, and even Christian. A while back I was watching a Netflix series presented by that Science Guy, Bill Nye, and I found it quite informative and amusing until he started to mock Biblical creation ideas... He even went so far as to say that evolution is not just a theory but proven, and I do not believe that at all. This is not to say that species do not adapt. But one species has never morphed into another as far as I know.
Yeah Bill Nye is sort of a goofy character to be honest but the topic of the age of the Earth can be an interesting one if people are open minded and honest in their research.
There are several points to discuss in this topic. For example, how do scientists formulate a theory?

1.There's the observational approach and the mathematical approach. In the mathematical approach, they do indeed fudge the numbers for their equations to resolve.
In string theory, which is the unifying theory of quantum mechanics (the very small) and relativity (the very large) they have to put-in a factor of 10 or 11 dimensions (i think) in order for the equations to solve.
Does this mean that other dimensions exist? Maybe? Maybe not.
But the Bible does speak of 3 layers of Heaven so maybe there is something truthful in that mathematical equation? I don't know but it's an interesting thing to think about on how Science always glorifies God.

2. The other approach is observational or hands-on.
In this approach we can look at things or touch them and measure them and come up with some numbers and dates. So, when we look at the color of the light coming from far far-away, we measure the redshift.
Redshift - Wikipedia
In plain English, redshift means how far away the light is coming from. The best analogy for this is sound.
When a car is coming towards you, it sounds different when it's going away from you and that's how you have a sense of distance.
Now, most people here discuss the details in order to throw off this sound or light argument. They say that 13 billion years old is not accurate because the scientists change the numbers.
Well, this is true, but just like the case of the car, you know when the car if very very very far away or pretty close because you can hear it. You know if a truck is a mile away from you or 100 feet away from you (more or less).
So similarly scientists change these numbers based on the new telescopes they launch in space to measure this light effect. They change them from 13 billion to 14 billion.
Based on that we can't say that the numbers 6000 or 13 billion are in any way shape or form very close to each other. What this means is that the age of the Earth is not 6000 years old, not even close.
Another point that is raised here is that God stretched the Heavens (there are several Bibles verses on this) and this is fine and i realize that maybe what we see is an illusion but in the end this is what we see.
So, i'm not sure why God would stretch the Heavens so when we see them they look 13 billion years old, but we're supposed to ignore our eyes and say that it's 6000 years old.
I don't know how this works but right now i see 13 billion years old, so i'm going with that.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,699
113
#11
The universe began when God spoke the following words over 6000 Years ago,
Nice to see that you are a step ahead of many of the modern anti-creationists. Only six days to accomplish all that. Some folks cannot discern the difference between 6 days and 13 billion years. Math didn't profit them very much.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,168
26,221
113
#12
Yeah Bill Nye is sort of a goofy character to be honest but the topic of the age of the
Earth can be an interesting one if people are open minded and honest in their research.
Yeah, he was quite entertaining until the mocking started, and that was concurrent with him also
saying evolution is a proven fact. At that point he started coming across as downright belligerent.

There are several points to discuss in this topic. For example, how do scientists formulate a theory?

1.There's the observational approach and the mathematical approach. In the mathematical
approach, they do indeed fudge the numbers for their equations to resolve.

In string theory, which is the unifying theory of quantum mechanics (the very small) and relativity (the
very large) they have to put-in a factor of 10 or 11 dimensions (i think) in order for the equations to solve.

Does this mean that other dimensions exist? Maybe? Maybe not.

But the Bible does speak of 3 layers of Heaven so maybe there is something truthful in that mathematical
equation? I don't know but it's an interesting thing to think about on how Science always glorifies God.

2. The other approach is observational or hands-on.
In this approach we can look at things or touch them and measure them and come up with some numbers
and dates. So, when we look at the color of the light coming from far far-away, we measure the redshift.

Redshift - Wikipedia
In plain English, redshift means how far away the light is coming from. The best analogy for this is sound.
When a car is coming towards you, it sounds different when it's going away from you and that's how you have a sense of distance.
Now, most people here discuss the details in order to throw off this sound or light argument. They say that 13 billion years old is not accurate because the scientists change the numbers.

Well, this is true, but just like the case of the car, you know when the car if very very very far away or pretty close
because you can hear it. You know if a truck is a mile away from you or 100 feet away from you (more or less).

So similarly scientists change these numbers based on the new telescopes they launch
in space to measure this light effect. They change them from 13 billion to 14 billion.

Based on that we can't say that the numbers 6000 or 13 billion are in any way shape or form very
close to each other. What this means is that the age of the Earth is not 6000 years old, not even close.

Another point that is raised here is that God stretched the Heavens (there are several Bibles verses on
this) and this is fine and i realize that maybe what we see is an illusion but in the end this is what we see.

So, i'm not sure why God would stretch the Heavens so when we see them they look
13 billion years old, but we're supposed to ignore our eyes and say that it's 6000 years old.

I don't know how this works but right now i see 13 billion years old, so i'm going with that.
The numbers being discussed had to do with isotopes and half lives.

I would have to listen to the program again to better understand it all...

As it is, I was only half listening the first time .:LOL:
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,877
5,364
113
62
#13
Yeah, he was quite entertaining until the mocking started, and that was concurrent with him also
saying evolution is a proven fact. At that point he started coming across as downright belligerent.


The numbers being discussed had to do with isotopes and half lives.

I would have to listen to the program again to better understand it all...

As it is, I was only half listening the first time .:LOL:
Maybe your listening has a half life.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
3,332
1,138
113
46
#15
Yeah, he was quite entertaining until the mocking started, and that was concurrent with him also
saying evolution is a proven fact. At that point he started coming across as downright belligerent.


The numbers being discussed had to do with isotopes and half lives.

I would have to listen to the program again to better understand it all...

As it is, I was only half listening the first time .:LOL:
Yeah, this is also used when a lot of people say that carbon dating is inaccurate when we measure the age of the dinosaur bones for example. But this is why scientists don't use carbon dating but isotopes like Uranium which have a very long lifespan.
Here's a detailed explanation here: How Do Scientists Determine the Age of Dinosaur Bones? | HowStuffWorks

The problem with any type of discussion is that most people don't want to approach things in learning higher truths, but approach things in team-camps. Fox News vs CNN News. Neither side is listening or communicating.
So at that point it becomes entertainment, but for some who are interested in details and nuances, these things are fascinating to think about and they simply support and glorify God to the believers and are a huge problem to deal with for non-believers who say that God isn't needed to create this engineering marvel.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#16
You know, you had a pretty good post here, very informative, encompassing a lot of history and important names but then you had to say this and it made me laugh.
You are a very interesting person Philip. God bless you sir. :D
Eli, answer this one question, and I may concede to your comments. When the LORD God "formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life," and the moment the MAN stood on his feet, how old was Adam?
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
3,332
1,138
113
46
#17
Eli, answer this one question, and I may concede to your comments. When the LORD God "formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life," and the moment the MAN stood on his feet, how old was Adam?
I honestly don't know.
What i do know and believe is that God has created us. What we are discussing here is the details and the HOW.
Now, you can treat the Bible as an engineering book, but i don't. I treat it as a spiritual and relationship book to our Creator.
A lot of these things are made like this in order for us to make a choice because we will never solve it logically. So i made the choice to believe many years ago after a logical and material approach to the condition i find myself in, and then i had to drop all logic and reason and trust in the supreme Creator because we will never figure out the exact details.
Anytime anyone says the Earth is 6000 years old it means that you're ignoring your eyes and your reason. So, in my eyes you sort of isolate yourself in a camp denying the sight and reason that God gave you.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,168
26,221
113
#18
Eli, answer this one question, and I may concede to your comments. When the
LORD God "formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed in his nostrils the
breath of life," and the moment the MAN stood on his feet, how old was Adam?
One second old?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,699
113
#19
The level of Joe Christian's ignorance and gullibility concerning such matters is amazing. Satan and his children in the scientific communities must be laughing their socks off at us. They all know what fossils are and that none of the original material actually remains. Just hardened materials that seep into the empty cavities that mark the spot where these poor beasts perished. None of the original material remains for very long. Meat and bone does not hang around like and rock and stone. The Great Flood churned all the layers around like a giant washing machine, so the layer thingy doesn't work either.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
3,332
1,138
113
46
#20
The level of Joe Christian's ignorance and gullibility concerning such matters is amazing. Satan and his children in the scientific communities must be laughing their socks off at us. They all know what fossils are and that none of the original material actually remains. Just hardened materials that seep into the empty cavities that mark the spot where these poor beasts perished. None of the original material remains for very long. Meat and bone does not hang around like and rock and stone. The Great Flood churned all the layers around like a giant washing machine, so the layer thingy doesn't work either.
Welcome to the studio Tucker Carlson.