More on free will

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Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,366
3,162
113
#1
Free will can be confusing. How can the will be free if it continually chooses what is unacceptable to God? God said to Israel that it was within their power to obey His law (Deuteronomy 30:10) yet Israel constantly failed to keep it (Acts 15:10). Yet God also holds mankind responsible for their choices. How can God be just if people are not free to choose?

It is important to know that the will of man follows the desires of his heart. And that is the root of the problem. God's OT law is not too hard, it is the heart of man that is too hard. Man's desires are not God's desires because man's ways are not God's. Humanity is quite content with itself. The book of Judges, where some terrible sins were committed, says, "Every man did what was right in his own eyes". Deuteronomy 12:8 rebukes this idea.

God's solution to this problem is to give mankind a new heart, if they will receive Jesus. This is what it means to be born again, as God revealed to Ezekiel (36:26). When we have this wonderful transformation, we will find that our desires change, some instantly and some progressively.

It's not all smooth sailing. We retain the self of soul that is in conflict with the new life of Christ within us. This is the life that we need to lose in order to gain the new life in our experience.

If we find that we struggle in some areas (I've yet to meet someone who does not), we can ask God to help us. Perhaps we are not keen on studying God's word. It may be a natural thing such as laziness. We may have a project we have to do but we are not motivated. We can ask God to establish the desires of our heart according to His will. We often find that our minds argue against God's will. We can ask God to help us with our thoughts so that they do not conflict with the desire of our hearts.

If the Christian life seems to hard, that is because it is too hard - for us. God expects nothing but sin, failure and defeat from us. So He gives us Jesus to do the living instead of the natural life we inherited from Adam. When we quit trying to be what God has already made us to be in Christ, and let Christ do the living, life becomes so much easier.

Some think that all we need is the Bible. Can you imagine picking up a book on surgery and attempting brain surgery from reading the instructions? All the book will show you is the impossibility of learning surgery by reading a book. God knows that we need more than a set of rules to follow. Christians have Jesus dwelling in them in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Let Him do the motivating and empowering. That's why He came (John 10:10)
 

Pardizzle

Active member
Feb 1, 2024
186
86
28
Texas
#2
This is a great thread, thanks! You mentioned about the Heart....You know how people always say 'follow your heart', or 'you can't help what the heart wants'.....well that couldn't be further from the truth! We actually should be Leading our heart, and not following it.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
9,223
4,756
113
#3
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Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#4
Free will can be confusing. How can the will be free if it continually chooses what is unacceptable to God? God said to Israel that it was within their power to obey His law (Deuteronomy 30:10) yet Israel constantly failed to keep it (Acts 15:10). Yet God also holds mankind responsible for their choices. How can God be just if people are not free to choose?

It is important to know that the will of man follows the desires of his heart. And that is the root of the problem. God's OT law is not too hard, it is the heart of man that is too hard. Man's desires are not God's desires because man's ways are not God's. Humanity is quite content with itself. The book of Judges, where some terrible sins were committed, says, "Every man did what was right in his own eyes". Deuteronomy 12:8 rebukes this idea.

God's solution to this problem is to give mankind a new heart, if they will receive Jesus. This is what it means to be born again, as God revealed to Ezekiel (36:26). When we have this wonderful transformation, we will find that our desires change, some instantly and some progressively.

It's not all smooth sailing. We retain the self of soul that is in conflict with the new life of Christ within us. This is the life that we need to lose in order to gain the new life in our experience.

If we find that we struggle in some areas (I've yet to meet someone who does not), we can ask God to help us. Perhaps we are not keen on studying God's word. It may be a natural thing such as laziness. We may have a project we have to do but we are not motivated. We can ask God to establish the desires of our heart according to His will. We often find that our minds argue against God's will. We can ask God to help us with our thoughts so that they do not conflict with the desire of our hearts.

If the Christian life seems to hard, that is because it is too hard - for us. God expects nothing but sin, failure and defeat from us. So He gives us Jesus to do the living instead of the natural life we inherited from Adam. When we quit trying to be what God has already made us to be in Christ, and let Christ do the living, life becomes so much easier.

Some think that all we need is the Bible. Can you imagine picking up a book on surgery and attempting brain surgery from reading the instructions? All the book will show you is the impossibility of learning surgery by reading a book. God knows that we need more than a set of rules to follow. Christians have Jesus dwelling in them in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Let Him do the motivating and empowering. That's why He came (John 10:10)
The idea is that in finding God's laws and His ways wholly impossible we will cry out to Him for the power to do it. Both the Jews before us and we also.

But we are greatly advantaged in that we have the inner life of Christ and He has already won the victory ... all we have to do is walk in it. How?

By simple faith, simply believing, simply trusting.

... and THAT is what folks so very hard to do.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,478
455
83
#5
Free will can be confusing. How can the will be free if it continually chooses what is unacceptable to God? God said to Israel that it was within their power to obey His law (Deuteronomy 30:10) yet Israel constantly failed to keep it (Acts 15:10). Yet God also holds mankind responsible for their choices. How can God be just if people are not free to choose?

It is important to know that the will of man follows the desires of his heart. And that is the root of the problem. God's OT law is not too hard, it is the heart of man that is too hard. Man's desires are not God's desires because man's ways are not God's. Humanity is quite content with itself. The book of Judges, where some terrible sins were committed, says, "Every man did what was right in his own eyes". Deuteronomy 12:8 rebukes this idea.

God's solution to this problem is to give mankind a new heart, if they will receive Jesus. This is what it means to be born again, as God revealed to Ezekiel (36:26). When we have this wonderful transformation, we will find that our desires change, some instantly and some progressively.

It's not all smooth sailing. We retain the self of soul that is in conflict with the new life of Christ within us. This is the life that we need to lose in order to gain the new life in our experience.

If we find that we struggle in some areas (I've yet to meet someone who does not), we can ask God to help us. Perhaps we are not keen on studying God's word. It may be a natural thing such as laziness. We may have a project we have to do but we are not motivated. We can ask God to establish the desires of our heart according to His will. We often find that our minds argue against God's will. We can ask God to help us with our thoughts so that they do not conflict with the desire of our hearts.

If the Christian life seems to hard, that is because it is too hard - for us. God expects nothing but sin, failure and defeat from us. So He gives us Jesus to do the living instead of the natural life we inherited from Adam. When we quit trying to be what God has already made us to be in Christ, and let Christ do the living, life becomes so much easier.

Some think that all we need is the Bible. Can you imagine picking up a book on surgery and attempting brain surgery from reading the instructions? All the book will show you is the impossibility of learning surgery by reading a book. God knows that we need more than a set of rules to follow. Christians have Jesus dwelling in them in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Let Him do the motivating and empowering. That's why He came (John 10:10)
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I will, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not will, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I will, but the evil I do not will is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not will it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I will to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

The will is free because we get to choose how we will prioritise our wants/will/ desires, even if sin in our flesh constrains us to do what we do not want/will to do. The will, according to a careful reading of Roman 7, is not the ability to do what we want, but is the ability to choose what we want most.

Most people seem to thinks that free will requires us to be able to do whatever we want. I can want to fly like a bird even though I know I cannot. My will (my ability to choose to want) to fly like a bird is not constrained, but my ability actually to fly like a bird is.

Free will does not require omnipotence.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,478
455
83
#6
The idea is that in finding God's laws and His ways wholly impossible we will cry out to Him for the power to do it. Both the Jews before us and we also.
What do you mean by "God's laws and ways are wholly impossible". ? Do you mean, everything in them is impossible? Or it is not possible to do them completely ?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#7
What do you mean by "God's laws and ways are wholly impossible". ? Do you mean, everything in them is impossible? Or it is not possible to do them completely ?
I mean the law is holy, the law is good, the law is spiritual

The flesh is rotten and weak.

3, 000 people were slain at the foot of Sinai when the law was given, the law killeth
3, 000 people got saved on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was given. The Spirit giveth life.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,366
3,162
113
#8
What do you mean by "God's laws and ways are wholly impossible". ? Do you mean, everything in them is impossible? Or it is not possible to do them completely ?
When God gave the Law, He told Israel that it was not too hard for them (Deuteronomy 30:8). And that is true. However, the human heart is so full of pride and rebellion that it refuses to obey God.

The purpose of the Law is to expose the wretched and hopeless state of mankind. When a sinner sees this, he may, as on the day of Pentecost, ask what he must do? (Galatians 3:23-24)
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,478
455
83
#9
PaulThomson said:
What do you mean by "God's laws and ways are wholly impossible". ? Do you mean, everything in them is impossible? Or it is not possible to do them completely ?

I mean the law is holy, the law is good, the law is spiritual

The flesh is rotten and weak.

3, 000 people were slain at the foot of Sinai when the law was given, the law killeth
3, 000 people got saved on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was given. The Spirit giveth life.
So you meant neither, "Everything in God's laws and ways is impossible"?
Nor that "It is not possible to do God's laws and ways completely" ?

That "the law is holy, the law is good, the law is spiritual; the flesh is rotten and weak," is certainly not clear in your statement ""God's laws and ways are wholly impossible"."
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,478
455
83
#10
When God gave the Law, He told Israel that it was not too hard for them (Deuteronomy 30:8). And that is true. However, the human heart is so full of pride and rebellion that it refuses to obey God
Do you mean, "the human heart is so full of pride and rebellion that it always refuses to ever obey God"?
Or "the human heart is so full of pride and rebellion that it refuses to consistently always obey God"?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#11
PaulThomson said:
What do you mean by "God's laws and ways are wholly impossible". ? Do you mean, everything in them is impossible? Or it is not possible to do them completely ?



So you meant neither, "Everything in God's laws and ways is impossible"?
Nor that "It is not possible to do God's laws and ways completely" ?

That "the law is holy, the law is good, the law is spiritual; the flesh is rotten and weak," is certainly not clear in your statement ""God's laws and ways are wholly impossible"."
Actually what I said was in finding God's laws and ways impossible we will cry out for the power to do them. With God's power they are possible.

But they will not save anybody.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,478
455
83
#12
Actually what I said was in finding God's laws and ways impossible we will cry out for the power to do them. With God's power they are possible.

But they will not save anybody.
Never mind. I can see this isn't going to get any clearer. Grace and peace.