BREAKING BREAD

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#21
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#21
Nehemiah6 said:
Since you chose to miss the point, there is no point in responding to this any further.
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i understand the point you're trying to make. i do not agree that the absence of specific information about the recipe used for fruit of the vine means your opinion of what it should be is what it actually is. the same lack of specificity undercuts your own assertion, making it equally presumptive, but the context of 1 Corinthians 11 definitively shows the eucharist involved wine rather than freshly squeezed tomatoes.

it's not that i have misunderstood your post. it's that the stronger argument is on the other side of the position you have taken, bro.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#23
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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#23
vassal said:
Jesus was flesh and blood.
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and He lived among us as any other man did, in the same atmosphere. His feet got dusty and His hair got oily. Just like grapeskins naturally get living yeast on them.

it was not sin for Christ to have grass stains on His tunic or dirt under His holy fingernails, imho
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#24
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#24
vassal said:
The bread and wine were symbols for flesh and Blood, Jesus was flesh and blood.
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Jesus was definitely more than flesh and blood. He was "GOD manifest in the flesh" and by definition He was the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. Symbols representing Him cannot reflect something else.

Why do you think God even instituted the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread (both of which were fulfilled by Christ)? The biblical Passover meal consisted of (a) a roasted lamb which had been without spot or blemish, (b) unleavened bread, and (c) bitter herbs. There was no wine included. Also not a bone of this lamb was to be broken, and the lamb was to be totally consumed.

All of this was symbolic of the sacrifice of Christ, Hence Paul says that "Christ OUR PASSOVER is sacrificed for us" (1 Cor 5:7). But he also tells us in that verse to purge out the old leaven (of malice and wickedness) "because you are ULEAVENED". And "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump".
 
K

Kroogz

Well-known member
#25
Dec 5, 2023
777
303
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#25
Matthew 26:29
29 “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

Isaiah 25:6
6 The Lord of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
 
S

Shilohsfoal

Banned
#26
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
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#26
Nehemiah6 said:
You are off on a tangent. We are discussing the Lord's Supper (also called "the Breaking of Bread", and also called (in the non-Catholic sense) "the Eucharist" (Giving of Thanks) -- εὐχαριστέω* (eucharisteō ) found in this verse: And he took the cup, and gave thanks*, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it (Mt 26:27), Also Luke 22:17,19.
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Doesn't really have nothing to do with what goes in the mouth then does it.Doesnt have anything to do with grape juice or the bread of the earth.
 
SunshineGirl

SunshineGirl

Active member
#27
Jan 6, 2024
288
191
43
England
#27
I always thought it was bread for his body and red wine for his blood.
Doesn't God look at the heart of a person
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#28
Nov 20, 2018
23,042
8,375
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#28
vassal said:
The bread and wine were symbols for flesh and Blood, Jesus was flesh and blood.
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Unkillable flesh and blood. The Romans tried and failed. Jesus went thru the otherwise deadly beatings and deadly scourgings with no effect in terms of living or dying. Zero. Also Jesus was crying aloud in thunderous volumes from the cross, a feat impossible by mere men.

The impossibility of killing Jesus impressed the Roman detail assigned to the task of His trial and crucifixion so much that many professed faith in His Godhood. And this belief spread like wildfire among the entire Roman army worldwide.

That is how devastatingly miraculous and remarkable the crucifixion of Christ really was. It had a huge impact upon Jew and gentile alike.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#29
Nov 20, 2018
23,042
8,375
113
#29
Nehemiah6 said:
Because Christ called it "the fruit of the vine" and it would be unfermented. To properly represent the blood of the sinless Son of God, there should be nothing connected to leaven. It is interesting to note that in connection with the Lord's Supper, the word "wine" does not appear anywhere. Rather it is "the cup".

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Mt 26:27-29)
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I doubt that there was such a thing as unfermented grape juice back then. The natural fermentation process would commence almost immediately in that environment. You would have some alcohol content in any room temperature container within hours.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#31
Jul 12, 2021
2,890
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#31
Sheesh.
Are these “elders” in the church insisting on grape juice and yeast-free bread.
SunshineGirl said:
I always thought it was bread for his body and red wine for his blood.
Doesn't God look at the heart of a person
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Yes, SunshineGirl, that is exactly right.

This thread is embarrassing. :rolleyes:
 
V

vassal

Well-known member
#32
Jan 20, 2024
705
321
63
#32
Nehemiah6 said:
Jesus was definitely more than flesh and blood. He was "GOD manifest in the flesh" and by definition He was the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. Symbols representing Him cannot reflect something else.

Why do you think God even instituted the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread (both of which were fulfilled by Christ)? The biblical Passover meal consisted of (a) a roasted lamb which had been without spot or blemish, (b) unleavened bread, and (c) bitter herbs. There was no wine included. Also not a bone of this lamb was to be broken, and the lamb was to be totally consumed.

All of this was symbolic of the sacrifice of Christ, Hence Paul says that "Christ OUR PASSOVER is sacrificed for us" (1 Cor 5:7). But he also tells us in that verse to purge out the old leaven (of malice and wickedness) "because you are ULEAVENED". And "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump".
Click to expand...
Absolutely, Jesus was so much more than flesh and blood, he is the son of God! the messiah, our saviour.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#33
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
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#33
Omegatime said:
1 Cor. 11:27

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
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this Scripture is Pauls warning to anyone who would take Communion without being saved. There are congregations that allow anyone who wants to participate in the Communion Service, and the do so at the risk of the unsaved who take part, and the one who allows them to. I know Catholics believe that the bread magically turns into the actual flesh of Jesus, and the wine into His blood. This is so very wrong. It is symbolic! Just as water baptism is symbolic of the Holy Spirit Baptism.
 
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