Can anyone else define these terms as they are used in the Bible?

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I

Inquisitor

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#81
PaulThomson said:
What does "praying without ceasing" look like in your life? And where are you getting your meaning of "praying" from?

BTW you are sinning grammatically with your commas. :)
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I do believe the clause, 'pray without ceasing', actually means what it says.

Obviously, your relationship with Jesus is based on your interaction with Jesus.

The more you think about Jesus, meditate on Jesus, pray to Jesus. Then it follows that your behavior, your Christian life, will follow, emulate, the life of Jesus. Whatever you devote your thought life to will be what you become good at. If you devote an hour a day to playing the guitar for example, in time, you should become better at playing the guitar. What you devote your time to is generally what you love to do. I don't think Jesus spent His days thinking about fishing or golf!

I know for a fact that the more you read and dwell on the scripture. The more committed you will be as a Christian. The same holds true for prayer.

Ephesians 6:18
With every prayer and request, pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be alert with all perseverance and every request for all the saints.

Luke 5:16
But Jesus Himself would often slip away to the wilderness and pray.

I studied science at university not English literature. So I do make mistakes with grammar at times, especially with punctuation.
How was the punctuation in this post?
 
I

Inquisitor

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#82
Jimbone said:
So please explain one simple thing, how do we have "free" will when we are told very clearly our will is a slave of one thing or the other? You know slaves aren't free right? So we have enslaved free will?

Seems you just want to argue though, and haven't added anything to rebuke or disprove anything I said. If you red carefully you will see I said clearly we have choice, yet you come here will scripture that says we have choice to argue against a point I never made? I was very carful how I worded everything and tried my best not to trigger snowflakes who only want to "teach people" yet always seem to come with no understanding of what the comment they're replying actually said. They build straw men of things that were never said then refute them, never actually engaging with what was truly said. This scripture and my comment agree in every way, why don't you use any of the scripture that says EXACTLY what I said about being enslaved to sin or to Him?

I'm honestly growing tried of tiring to have any kind of real conversation or debate on here because of this "never listen always teach" mentality that too many here seem to have. The passion for their beliefs I commend, and even expect from anyone that truly know our King, but the cultish mentality that surrounds some topics on here and the complete unwillingness to actually engage with what's said instead of telling the other what they believe before dismantling THIER OWN arguments, time after time, after time, just gets so tired.
We are clearly told that our will is a slave to our nature, I believe that a slave is not "Free", therefore if we are a slave either way then this idea of "Free Will" is not possible. That's it, that was all I was sharing and wasn't really trying to convince or convert anyone with the comment. So I say that then go on to emphasize that I absolutely believe in choice and that our decisions matter, basically I believe exactly like everyone else I just have a problem with the term "free will". Yet you jump in like a hero to correct me by giving scripture that agrees with everything I said. It's just irritating.
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I agree with you.

Free will is impossible, no one can make a decision that is totally free from external influence.

Can we make choices at times, yes we can.

But everyone's choices are directly linked to upbringing, society, choices that others make will affect us, etc. Even your DNA has an influence on the way you think, your choices. Some folk spend there entire lives thinking about just one subject. Some folk always make exactly the same choices every time.

Is there some level of determinism in life, of course there is.

Both exist at the same time.

That Jesus would die for us was predetermined from eternity.

Christians are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

The nation of Israel was chosen, elect, set apart, but Jerusalem and the temple was left desolate.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#83
Jimbone said:
So please explain one simple thing, how do we have "free" will when we are told very clearly our will is a slave of one thing or the other? You know slaves aren't free right? So we have enslaved free will?
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No we are NOT told that our will is a "slave" to sin. The only time you will find the word slave in the KJB is in Jeremiah 2:14 (and that too is in italics, which means it is not in the Hebrew text): Is Israel a servant? is he a homeborn slave? why is he spoiled?

And the only time "bondage" is applied to the unsaved is in Hebrews 2:15, and that too in connection with the fear of death: And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

In other words, Martin Luther invented this idea of "slave" out of thin air. On the other hand we know that the natural man is under the strong influence of the sin nature, but at the same time God has given all human beings a conscience. So even the Gentile who had no law were able to do right because of their conscience (Rom 2:14-16). And this is still true today. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

So the Calvinistic idea of total depravity is not even found in the Bible. In fact nothing in TULIP is found in the Bible. It is simply MAN MADE DOCTRINE and many people are in bondage to this false gospel.
 
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PaulThomson

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Slaves, in the definition of your intent do not have a say in the matter. Those who follow God do so because they want to. Someone who wants to be a slave for the will of God is very "free."
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Where are we told our will is a slave?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Nehemiah6 said:
No we are NOT told that our will is a "slave" to sin.
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“Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.” <= Jesus' words (John 8:34).
 
P

PaulThomson

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CS1 said:
Based on your post -


A. Matt. 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Answer: " The will of " = thelēma meaning
  1. of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ
You will have fruit to show that you are doing the will of the Father. The works of Christ are self-evident. If Jesus' words abide in you. The action will always lead to doing The Will of the Father.




B. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the desire of my Father which is in heaven.



Answer: Each of these from B, C, and D are saying the same thing but using different words from translations or versions of One text. Also, you must take all things that are said in relationship to this Verse and measure it to them all. This will provide more clarity. The Concern is Your own heart that God is fully aware if it is in the Will of HIM. We can fool man but not God.



C. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the wish of my Father which is in heaven.

D. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth what my Father which is in heaven determines shall be done.

Which of these A, B, C and/or D do you think are possibilities?
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Are you not a exhaustive divine determinist? If you are, How can D you possibly see D as correct?
 
CS1

CS1

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#89
PaulThomson said:
Are you not a exhaustive divine determinist? If you are, How can D you possibly see D as correct?
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I do not think that describes me, but all scripture must be taken into account when trying to understand the text.

In proper biblical interpretation, we must seek the Authorial intent and the circle of Context within the text.

We must look at :

The verse, sentence, paragraph, chapter, book, and the whole Bible and what is said or written about the text.

D. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth what my Father which is in heaven determines shall be done.



ABC and D all are saying the same thing in different English words that have to be looked at from the most original Words in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.


out of all the quotes in this verse, some use language that is more direct or stronger English words. Pray and see which one best fits the translation from the original text.

They all say the same thing.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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PaulThomson said:
Come, let us reason calmly together.

There are a lot of words thrown at our screens making claims about the following terms. It would seem wise to first of all settle on some biblical definitions of those terms before making bold unfounded assertions about them. Can anyone give biblically sound definitions of these terms with biblical texts to back up those definitions?

1. the will.
2. to will
3. a free will
4. a bound will
5. to be sovereign
6. to predetermine
7. elect

If anyone cannot offer a biblical definition of these, should that person be confidently spouting doctrine about them?
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will=want to.

The concept is well expressed in this passage:

Isaiah 55:1
“Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.”


This "come ye... eat" in no way implies being forced into or being tricked into or being born already having it. The horse is led to water, but not forced to drink.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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PaulThomson said:
The "will" is not mentioned in your supporting text.
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The Bible speaks of Jesus' desiring to do His Father's will many times. To "will" in modern English is now accepted as a verb as well as noun. Having to bend over backwards to explain such things can be tiring after a fashion.:rolleyes:
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Magenta said:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.” <= Jesus' words (John 8:34).
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Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.(King James Bible). The Greek word doulos can be translated as either servant or slave. I was going strictly be what is in the KJB, and the translators chose to use the word "servant". Perhaps because only the one who commits sin is a servant of sin. Just because humans have the sin nature does not mean that they continuously commit sins.
 
P

PaulThomson

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Inquisitor said:
I do believe the clause, 'pray without ceasing', actually means what it says.

Obviously, your relationship with Jesus is based on your interaction with Jesus.

The more you think about Jesus, meditate on Jesus, pray to Jesus. Then it follows that your behavior, your Christian life, will follow, emulate, the life of Jesus. Whatever you devote your thought life to will be what you become good at. If you devote an hour a day to playing the guitar for example, in time, you should become better at playing the guitar. What you devote your time to is generally what you love to do. I don't think Jesus spent His days thinking about fishing or golf!

I know for a fact that the more you read and dwell on the scripture. The more committed you will be as a Christian. The same holds true for prayer.

Ephesians 6:18
With every prayer and request, pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be alert with all perseverance and every request for all the saints.

Luke 5:16
But Jesus Himself would often slip away to the wilderness and pray.

I studied science at university not English literature. So I do make mistakes with grammar at times, especially with punctuation.
How was the punctuation in this post?
Click to expand...
You did not answer the questions.

They were -What does "praying without ceasing" look like in your life?
And where are you getting your meaning of "praying" from?
 
P

PaulThomson

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#94
Magenta said:
So what? I responded to what Nehemiah said.
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Nehemiah6 said:
No we are NOT told that our will is a "slave" to sin.

The "so what" is that your response was irrelevant as a response to Nehemiah6. How do you expect to come to rational interpretations of scripture when you don't reason logically about scripture. The first thing to look at with a text is "What is it saying?" You should not begin by reading into a text what it is not saying.
 
P

PaulThomson

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CS1 said:
I do not think that describes me, but all scripture must be taken into account when trying to understand the text.

In proper biblical interpretation, we must seek the Authorial intent and the circle of Context within the text.

We must look at :

The verse, sentence, paragraph, chapter, book, and the whole Bible and what is said or written about the text.

D. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth what my Father which is in heaven determines shall be done.



ABC and D all are saying the same thing in different English words that have to be looked at from the most original Words in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.


out of all the quotes in this verse, some use language that is more direct or stronger English words. Pray and see which one best fits the translation from the original text.

They all say the same thing.
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How would you describe the degree of determinism you believe is exercised by God on His creation?

An exhaustive divine determinist could not agree that D is correct, because according to exhaustive divine determinism, aka Calvinism, everything that happens is God's will. Because determinism says everything everyone does is God's will, D would mean that everyone will enter heaven, but not on the basis of saying to Jesus "Lord, Lord."
 
oyster67

oyster67

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#96
PaulThomson said:
They were -What does "praying without ceasing" look like in your life?
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An ever-present sense of God's presence no matter what the situation or place or time may be. We must first train ourselves to acknowledge Him.

Proverbs 3:6
“In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.”
 
P

PaulThomson

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#97
oyster67 said:
The Bible speaks of Jesus' desiring to do His Father's will many times. To "will" in modern English is now accepted as a verb as well as noun. Having to bend over backwards to explain such things can be tiring after a fashion.:rolleyes:
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It is an atrocious hermeneutic to read into a text what one presupposes the entire Bible's message is in determining what that text is saying. It certainly makes impossible rational communication about the meaning of a text if two persons begin the discussion by reading different teaching into the text before they determine what the text is actually saying.

Which texts are you referring to when you claim "The Bible speaks of Jesus' desiring to do His Father's will many times. "
 
I

Inquisitor

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#98
PaulThomson said:
You did not answer the questions.

They were -What does "praying without ceasing" look like in your life?
And where are you getting your meaning of "praying" from?
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ChatGPT defines, "prayer", as follows.

In the New Testament of the Christian Bible, the term "prayer" is used to refer to communication with God or Jesus Christ. It encompasses various forms of communication with the divine, including requests, supplications, thanksgiving, and worship. The New Testament contains numerous references to prayer, providing guidance on its practice and significance for believers.

One key passage regarding prayer is found in the Gospel of Matthew, where Jesus teaches his disciples how to pray. This passage is commonly known as the Lord's Prayer or the Our Father. In Matthew 6:9-13 (New International Version), Jesus says:

"This, then, is how you should pray: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from the evil one.'"

This prayer serves as a model for believers and emphasizes key aspects of prayer, including acknowledging God's holiness, seeking His will, asking for daily provision, seeking forgiveness, and seeking protection from temptation.

Throughout the New Testament, there are also various exhortations to pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18), to pray for one another (James 5:16), and to approach God with confidence in times of need (Hebrews 4:16). The New Testament portrays prayer as a vital aspect of the Christian life, fostering a relationship with God, seeking His guidance, and expressing dependence on Him.
 
I

Inquisitor

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#99
PaulThomson said:
You did not answer the questions.

They were -What does "praying without ceasing" look like in your life?
And where are you getting your meaning of "praying" from?
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How prayer looks in my life?

I look distracted, preoccupied.
 
P

PaulThomson

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#100
Inquisitor said:
How prayer looks in my life?
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That's not my question. What does praying without ceasing look like in your life? Do you always look preoccupied and distracted? Is someone who looks distracted and preoccupied necessarily praying?
 
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