The 10 Commandments and the Law of Moses

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Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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You invent things i never said
This is what you said.

"The commandments were first given to GOD's chosen people but were given also for everyone here is the undeniable proof"

Are you saying that the ten commandments are not eternal?

Are you saying that Adam and Eve were not given the ten commandments?
 

vassal

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2024
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You did not answer the question.

How can a Sabbath commandment be applied to the nations of the Roman Empire. When the nations in the Roman Empire did not have a day off?

Also, why would those people at Mt Sinai be given a commandment, that they already had in Genesis 2?

There is a serious problem in your interpretation.
You are very strange..
 

montana123

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Oct 9, 2021
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Israel had physical laws because the Old Covenant was a physical covenant with physical blessings.

But the spiritual laws were there which is the moral laws, laws of love.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law.

And the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, which are the moral laws, laws of love.

Those laws never pass away for they are spiritual laws.

Jesus took the physical ordinances out of the way nailing them to His cross for they were contrary to us because they had no bearing on spiritual salvation, so let no person judge you in the physical ordinances.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to be led of the Spirit acting Christlike.

The love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

If a person does not obey the moral laws, laws of love, then that is not love, and then their faith is no good.

Love would obey the laws of God that is spiritual.

A Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections, and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and not the flesh.

Which a Spirit led person is not under the law because their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sin, therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If we sin then we are under the law until we repent, and do not want the sin, and are led of the Spirit.

Many people are claiming Christ but holding on to sin, and believing they are right with God.
 

vassal

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2024
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Israel had physical laws because the Old Covenant was a physical covenant with physical blessings.

But the spiritual laws were there which is the moral laws, laws of love.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law.

And the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, which are the moral laws, laws of love.

Those laws never pass away for they are spiritual laws.

Jesus took the physical ordinances out of the way nailing them to His cross for they were contrary to us because they had no bearing on spiritual salvation, so let no person judge you in the physical ordinances.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to be led of the Spirit acting Christlike.

The love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

If a person does not obey the moral laws, laws of love, then that is not love, and then their faith is no good.

Love would obey the laws of God that is spiritual.

A Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections, and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and not the flesh.

Which a Spirit led person is not under the law because their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sin, therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

If we sin then we are under the law until we repent, and do not want the sin, and are led of the Spirit.

Many people are claiming Christ but holding on to sin, and believing they are right with God.
Nicely written and clear, thank you.
 

stilllearning

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Oct 4, 2021
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God spoke the ten commandments to Israel.

Exodus 20

1 Then God spoke all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

3 You shall have no other gods before Me.

Gentiles were not in the house of slavery, Egypt.
Yes and no. The Romans did indeed work 7 days a week. However, they had a 8 day week. Commonly referred to as the market week with the 8th day being market day and a day off. They also had festivals that could last one to two weeks long in which they did no work.

However, what Constantine did was he eliminated the 8 day week and went to 7 days. He made Sunday the first day of the week. The Romans at first did not have days of the week they numbered or more so gave the days of the week a letter. Their days on their calendar where A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H or 8 days.

Later on they called their days by names. Which sources point out Saturday or Saturn's day became the first because his was the first light that shone at the first hour. So Saturday was the first day of the week and Sunday the second. Also Monday as well as Sunday has been noted as well as first days of the week.

The Romans had problems with their calendars so they could be very fluid as one year in the reign of Caesar had 466 days in it. So they moved stuff around and one of these was what day was the first day of week and then how other days corresponded in sequence.

When Constantine eliminated the 8th day and went to a 7 day week he made Sunday the first day of the week. So if at that time Sunday was still the 2nd day it would then make Saturday the 7th day.

However, as those who believe they strictly follow the sabbath and that Constantine was the anti-christ for changing the days and had no authority. Well they are in a pickle because if he had no authority they are keeping the sabbath on the first day of the week and would be better served to keep it on Friday with the Muslims.

So if I was one that held to a strict Sabbath keeping I would actually research every source to find what day of the week is actually the Saturday or Sabbath God kept and not put my faith in a calendar that moved days around and came from a 8 day calendar.

I would not trust what we call Saturday is in fact the day called sabbath in the bible. To which if it is no big deal that it may not be the true day of sabbath but good enough since we call it Saturday. Then I would have to ask what is this argument about because if it is good enough to observe as what we call Saturday when in fact it may not be the actual day of the bible. Then by the same measure it should be okay to call ones sabbath Sunday.

So yeah go check out the history of their calendar, their 8 day week, the naming of the days of the week. You may come away thinking okay we have a 1 in 7 chance of Saturday actually being the biblical sabbath and a 6 in 7 chances it is not. Then good luck finding any number of sources you would say these are authoritative in agreement........LOL Then of course this was all done under the Julian calendar and now we use the Gregorian.
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
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If the ten commandments are the same as, 'whatsoever I have commanded you'.

Then you have a serious problem in your interpretation.

The Roman Empire worked seven days a week, no day off.

The Roman Empire was not given a day off until 321 AD, Constantine.

Which means a Roman citizen was unable to rest on the seventh day.

Israel was the only country that had a rest day.

Please explain how you reconcile this problem?
Apologies I clicked on the wrong post of yours to reply to....LOL
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Yes and no. The Romans did indeed work 7 days a week. However, they had a 8 day week. Commonly referred to as the market week with the 8th day being market day and a day off. They also had festivals that could last one to two weeks long in which they did no work.

However, what Constantine did was he eliminated the 8 day week and went to 7 days. He made Sunday the first day of the week. The Romans at first did not have days of the week they numbered or more so gave the days of the week a letter. Their days on their calendar where A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H or 8 days.

Later on they called their days by names. Which sources point out Saturday or Saturn's day became the first because his was the first light that shone at the first hour. So Saturday was the first day of the week and Sunday the second. Also Monday as well as Sunday has been noted as well as first days of the week.

The Romans had problems with their calendars so they could be very fluid as one year in the reign of Caesar had 466 days in it. So they moved stuff around and one of these was what day was the first day of week and then how other days corresponded in sequence.

When Constantine eliminated the 8th day and went to a 7 day week he made Sunday the first day of the week. So if at that time Sunday was still the 2nd day it would then make Saturday the 7th day.

However, as those who believe they strictly follow the sabbath and that Constantine was the anti-christ for changing the days and had no authority. Well they are in a pickle because if he had no authority they are keeping the sabbath on the first day of the week and would be better served to keep it on Friday with the Muslims.

So if I was one that held to a strict Sabbath keeping I would actually research every source to find what day of the week is actually the Saturday or Sabbath God kept and not put my faith in a calendar that moved days around and came from a 8 day calendar.

I would not trust what we call Saturday is in fact the day called sabbath in the bible. To which if it is no big deal that it may not be the true day of sabbath but good enough since we call it Saturday. Then I would have to ask what is this argument about because if it is good enough to observe as what we call Saturday when in fact it may not be the actual day of the bible. Then by the same measure it should be okay to call ones sabbath Sunday.

So yeah go check out the history of their calendar, their 8 day week, the naming of the days of the week. You may come away thinking okay we have a 1 in 7 chance of Saturday actually being the biblical sabbath and a 6 in 7 chances it is not. Then good luck finding any number of sources you would say these are authoritative in agreement........LOL Then of course this was all done under the Julian calendar and now we use the Gregorian.
In the Roman calendar, the eighth day of the nundinal cycle was not necessarily considered a day off for everyone. The nundinae (market days) served more as a scheduling mechanism rather than a designated day of rest. On these market days, rural farmers and people from surrounding areas would come to the city to trade goods and attend markets. While the frequency of market days meant that there was some regularity to this cycle, it wasn't a consistent weekly day off for everyone.

The concept of a regular weekly day of rest, as seen in the modern weekend, wasn't established in Roman times. The idea of a continuous seven-day week with a dedicated day of rest has different origins and developed over time in various cultures, often influenced by religious practices. The Roman concept of a week with an eighth-day market cycle did not include a universal day off for all individuals. (Chat GPT)

So it appears that the Roman Empire did not actually have a rest day as such.
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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Israel had physical laws because the Old Covenant was a physical covenant with physical blessings.
The law spoken at Mt Sinai were decrees given by God to Isreal.

Exodus 19:3
And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “This is what you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel."
But the spiritual laws were there which is the moral laws, laws of love.
Not sure what you are referring to here?
Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law.
The context in chapter three of Romans is Paul addressing the Jews, Paul is not talking to the Gentiles.

The Gentiles never had the law, they were uncircumcised.

Paul could not establish the law for Gentiles.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

Let God judge you. The question i ask is can i prepare for the sabbath so i don't need to worry about these situations.
If you surrender to the Lord and walk as He dirrects the sabbath becomes a delight.

Man has a habit of taking God's commandments and both destroying (making void) them or making them so strict (man made rules, tradition), that the good is lost.
I've been born again for over 50 years. I have never observed the sabbath. I could not be more content, more joyful or more blessed this side of heaven. Every day is my day of rest in Jesus. And that is the difference between law and grace.

You cannot have it both ways. Either you live by the Law or you live by grace. I choose grace, not bondage to a set of rules. And why just the 10 commandments? There are 613.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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That may be so, but the Bible does not speak about "Sunday". The Bible speaks about "the first day of the week". The day on which Christ rose from the dead. So focusing on "Sunday" is just a straw man argument. Christians call the first day of the week "The Lord's Day". This term is never applied to the 7th day Sabbath..
That sums up the evidence for the first day being the Lord's day.

Also, church tradition established the first day as the day, when we gather and break the bread..
The Lord's Day - Revelation 1:10 ... The First Day! (bible.ca)
 

Johann

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Apr 12, 2022
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Not only did Israel break the commandments, the commandments, in a sense, broke them. And the 10 commandments were not given to the Gentiles, only to Israel. The purpose of the Law was to expose the unwillingness of people to obey the Law of God. (Galatians 3:23).

The letter (of the law) kills, the Spirit gives life. This life is eternal. If the 10 commandments were so important, how come the stone tablets have disappeared? The physical temple is destroyed. The Law is the shadow (Hebrews 10:1 etc.). Some of us prefer to live in the light.
The phrase "the letter (of the law) kills, the spirit gives life" is found in 2 Corinthians 3:6. It contrasts the Old and New Covenants, emphasizing the transformative power of the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant compared to the condemnation of the Law in the Old Covenant. The "letter" refers to the literal requirements of the Law, which can only bring death as it exposes human sinfulness and inability to fully comply.

In contrast, "the Spirit" refers to the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit, who enables believers to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law and brings about spiritual life and transformation

This phrase underscores the central role of the Holy Spirit in enabling believers to live out the principles of God's kingdom. It highlights the shift from an external code that condemns to an internal transformation that brings life and enables obedience to God's commands.

The search results provided various perspectives on this phrase, including its application to spiritual formation, the contrast between Old and New Covenants, and the relationship between indicatives (statements of fact) and imperatives (commands) in Scripture. These perspectives collectively emphasize the importance of internal transformation through the Holy Spirit in fulfilling the righteous requirements of God's commands.

The phrase "the letter (of the law) kills, the spirit gives life" is derived from two separate verses in the New Testament:

John 6:63: "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." Here, Jesus speaks of the necessity of the Holy Spirit in bringing life to those who believe.

2 Corinthians 3:6: "Who then is adequate, who has been made acceptable to him? Certainly not the superficial person, for even though his natural abilities impress others, we have more certain knowledge." This verse sets up the contrast between the old covenant, represented by the letter (law), and the new covenant, represented by the Spirit.

These two verses combined convey the idea that the written word alone cannot impart true life, but the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit does. The phrase is used to illustrate the distinction between the Old and New Testaments, where the former focuses on the letter of the law, while the latter emphasizes the life-transforming power of the Holy Spirit.
Scripture references:
John 6:63
2 Corinthians 3:6
J.
 

Johann

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Apr 12, 2022
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You cannot have it both ways. Either you live by the Law or you live by grace. I choose grace, not bondage to a set of rules. And why just the 10 commandments? There are 613.
The Ten Commandments, also known as the Decalogue, are a set of biblical principles that play a fundamental role in Judaism and Christianity.

They were given to the Israelites through Moses and are found in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy. The commandments cover various aspects of human conduct, including the worship of God, ethical treatment of others, and personal morality.

The commandments are seen as the foundation of God's moral law and provide insight into God's character and expectations for human behavior.

The significance of the Ten Commandments in Christianity lies in their role as a reflection of God's character and a guide for living a godly life.

While Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, the moral principles outlined in the Ten Commandments are still considered relevant. Jesus emphasized the importance of these principles, summarizing them as loving God and loving one's neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). The Apostle Paul also referenced the commandments, particularly those related to interpersonal relationships, as a summary of God's moral requirements (Romans 13:8-10).

The commandments are viewed as a standard of moral conduct and a tool for self-examination. They highlight the importance of loving God above all else and treating others with respect and kindness.

While Christians are not saved by keeping the law, the commandments serve as a guide for righteous living and provide insight into God's moral standards.

It is important to note that while the commandments are significant, they are not the means of salvation for Christians. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, and the Christian life is lived in response to God's grace. The commandments serve as a guide for holy living and loving relationships with God and others.

In summary, the significance of the Ten Commandments in Christianity lies in their role as a reflection of God's character and a guide for living a godly life. While Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, the moral principles outlined in the Ten Commandments are still considered relevant and provide insight into God's moral standards.

Guess we can all learn, daily.
J.
 

Johann

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Apr 12, 2022
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I've been born again for over 50 years. I have never observed the sabbath. I could not be more content, more joyful or more blessed this side of heaven. Every day is my day of rest in Jesus. And that is the difference between law and grace.
The concept of living by grace versus living by the Law, as presented in the Bible, specifically in Romans 6:14–15, indicates that believers are not under the Law's curse or condemnation, but they are under God's grace.

This does not imply that believers are exempt from obeying God's commands or the principles embodied within the Law. Rather, it signifies that believers are now free from the penalty of the Law due to Christ's redemption, enabling them to serve God out of gratitude and love, rather than fear of punishment



.Here are the relevant passages with full citations:Romans 6:14–15 (NASB)

14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

Romans 6:14 (NET Bible)
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

These verses clearly indicate that believers are not under the Law's condemnation, but they are under God's grace, which empowers them to live a life pleasing to God. They are not free to sin without consequence, but rather, they are motivated to follow God's commands out of love and gratitude for the grace extended to them through Christ

Various Bible passages supporting the idea of rest in Christ include:

Rest in Christ is described throughout the following passages:

The concept of rest in Christ is supported by several biblical passages:

Rest in Christ is found in various biblical passages and themes:

Rest in Christ is connected to finding solace in God's presence and experiencing His supernatural peace (John 2:14):
Peace in Christ's presence provides solace through a deep, abide in everything by praying and meditating on God's presence (Philippians 4:6
J.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Arguments arise about the relevance of the 10 Commandments and the Law of Moses. I would like to explain here the differences between the two based on scripture (KJV).

The Ten Commandments

First, the 10 Commandments that were given by GOD, were written by the finger of GOD himself on tables of stone;

Deu 10:1 At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.
Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Deu 10:3 And I made an ark of shittim wood, and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first, and went up into the mount, having the two tables in mine hand.
Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
Deu 10:5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.

Note that the tablets were placed INSIDE the Ark of the Covenant under the Mercy seat. The 10 commandments are on a permanent medium, STONE, they are a permanent record. the 10 Commandments are referred to in the biblical texts as My Commandments or His Commandments. The 10 Commandments are the Moral law left to humanity, Jews and Gentiles alike.

The Law of Moses
Moses wrote a separate set of Laws that contained ordinances precepts, and statutes. They contained many things that were important for the Israelites of that time such as food laws, purity laws, social laws, sacrifice and offerings, instructions for the tabernacle, the priesthood, the sacrifices the feasts and more. Moses also copied to text what was on the tables of stone, the commandments but it does not mean the 10 commandments given by GOD are from Moses, The 10 Commandments have a HOLY status and are forever and are Distinct and separate from the Law of Moses. The law of Moses written on parchment or other similar medium was TEMPORARY by nature and was put OUTSIDE the ark of the covenant as it is written;

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
Deu 31:27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

The Mercy Seat
The mercy seat covering the Ark of the Covenant puts the emphasis on the Holiness of the Ark of the Covenant and it's contents, the Ten Commandments written on tables of stone;

Exo 25:17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
Exo 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
Exo 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
Exo 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
Exo 25:21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
Exo 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.



The mercy seat was the cover of the ark of the covenant where the Lord would meet with Moses over the 2 cherubim. The ark is HOLY and the contents, the 10 commandments are HOLY being written by GOD himself on a permanent medium ( stone )
Once per year on the day of Atonement, the High priest had to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat covering the ark containing the 10 commandments from a sacrifice for forgiveness of sin. Sin being defined as breaking the 10 commandments, the moral law written on the tablets of stone INSIDE THE ARK.

Yeshua, the messiah, the son of GOD, was the ultimate sacrifice, He paid the price for our sins with his blood unto death. Since the Final sacrifice for sin was fulfilled By Christ, The Law of Moses was therefore no longer applicable, it was a temporary Law contrary to the 10 Commandments that will not pass away. The two set of laws were, kept separately, given differently and written differently.

Jesus said we must keep the Ten Commandments to be saved, (Mat. 19:16-19). We are not saved by our obedience to God's law, but by grace thru faith. We must repent of our sins having transgressed the commandments. Repentance changes us from disobedience to willing obedience. Those who are willing to obey the Ten Commandments shall enter thru the gates into the HOLY City;

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

His Commandments are sure and are Love and stand for ever and ever.

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Peace
Your post was inaccurate.

You stated the following.
First, the 10 Commandments that were given by GOD, were written by the finger of GOD himself on tables of stone;
If you read Exodus 20 through to Exodus 24 and the covenant.

The text states God spoke the ten words and the covenant that Israel agreed to. Was based on what was spoken by God not written.

Exodus 24:3-7
Then Moses came and reported to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!” And Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord.

Nothing was written on stone at this time. Israel was in covenant with God to obey the law.