Predestination is misunderstood...

language I would not expect from you-If you are getting hot under the collar-the back door is that way.
Get it?
J.

.................No ..no ..no ..no!

Not one good thing dwells in the flesh!
Only Adam before the fall could have said what you did...


For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells;
for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. " Romans 7:18

You got that way too quick!

I was in a joking mood... The post was changed right after the original posting.! ....woops!

I hope you can now respond to my post.

Yes, in my flesh. The body is wrong (it's why we get sick and die), corrupted by the law of sin within but physical matter, in and of itself, is not evil. I got the impression the poster who queried me on this may have been thinking I was going down a gnostic route with the concept of matter being evil.

I most probably should have said "the body itself is not the sin nature" to make it clearer.

Yes, in my flesh. The body is wrong (it's why we get sick and die), corrupted by the law of sin within but physical matter, in and of itself, is not evil. I got the impression the poster who queried me on this may have been thinking I was going down a gnostic route with the concept of matter being evil.

I most probably should have said "the body itself is not the sin nature" to make it clearer.

My apologies.
J.

I most probably should have said "the body itself is not the sin nature" to make it clearer.

Your revised statement, "I most probably should have said 'the body itself is not the sin nature,'" accurately clarifies your intention.

The sin nature, as discussed earlier, is a theological construct describing the innate tendency of human beings to sin due to the effects of original sin. The sin nature is not confined to the physical body alone but rather encompasses the entirety of one's being—mind, emotions, and actions.

Although the body plays a role in carrying out sinful desires, it is not synonymous with the sin nature itself.
In summary, the sin nature is a spiritual reality that affects the whole person, not merely the physical body. The body is influenced by the sin nature but is not identical to it.

However, some general points related to the sin nature and its impact on the whole person can be found in the following verses:

Genesis 6:5 – Mentioning that the thoughts of mankind are continually evil.

Jeremiah 17:9 – Stating that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.

Romans 3:10–18 – Revealing that none are righteous, no not one.

Romans 7:18 – Acknowledging that within the flesh, nothing good dwells.

Ephesians 2:1 – Confirming that before salvation, individuals were dead in transgressions and sins.

While these verses do not explicitly address the distinction between the sin nature and the physical body, they do underscore the universality of sin and the need for redemption through faith in Jesus Christ.

But! The sin nature is in every cell of the body, except one. The female ovum.

That is why Jesus could not have a human father, and Jesus was able to have a body free of sin.

Because?

The Holy Spirit fertilized the ovum with the needed (perfect) genetic materials.

Its why the body of Jesus was so powerful....

The sin nature, as discussed earlier, is a theological construct describing the innate tendency of human beings to sin due to the effects of original sin. The sin nature is not confined to the physical body alone but rather encompasses the entirety of one's being—mind, emotions, and actions.

I
And I disagree-
The concept that the sin nature is a genetic mutation of our DNA that resides in the body, coupled with the imputation of Adam's sin (spiritual death), encompasses the entirety of our being and locks us into a downhill slide that would end in complete depravity and destruction if not for the grace and mercies of God is not explicitly stated in the Bible.

The idea of a genetic mutation as the basis for the sin nature and its impact on human beings is not a biblical teaching.

The Bible does teach that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), and that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), but it does not specifically attribute this to a genetic mutation.

The search results provided contain various perspectives on the concept of a "downhill slide" in the context of spiritual life and behavior, but they do not directly support the idea of a genetic mutation as the basis for the sin nature.

The passages referenced in the search results focus on spiritual regression, temptation, and the contrast between the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit, but they do not address the concept of a genetic mutation as the source of the sin nature.

In summary, while the Bible does teach about the universality of sin and its consequences, including spiritual death and the need for God's grace, it does not specifically describe the sin nature as a genetic mutation. The concept presented in the question appears to be more reflective of theological interpretation or speculation rather than a direct biblical teaching.

This is what is happening when we pontificate and philosophize WITHOUT referencing the Scriptures-no offense.
J.


The sin nature alone doesn't do it because if it did, then those of us who are born again would still have an endless struggle with sin, never overcoming because we still have a sin nature. The difference between the before (pre-Gospel) and after (post-Gospel) is being made spiritually alive.

I agree so I'm not really sure what the "but" is about?

I understand the sin nature to be a genetic mutation causing our bodies to be corrupted from what God originally formed and built for Adam and Eve.

I'm trying to avoid the concept that matter is evil which, is a gnostic notion. It would seem I'm doing a lousy job.

Though the word "evil" can have more than one meaning?
The body is innately "sinful."
Sin and evil are not one and the same.

The Gnostics view the body as evil....
Because they are evil in how they define it.
Its sinful, not evil.

If the body were innately evil it would have been impossible to give the Law of Moses to the Jews.
For, if truly evil? The Law would have been totally ignored at all times.

Good and bad/evil is what we must be taught in this fallen world.
We are taught... "This good! - Good boy/girl! "This is bad!" - Bad boy/girl.. do not do it.
Evil would simply tell the one teaching about good and evil that evil is good.

Evil is about "thinking against righteousness."
In contrast...
Sin is about having malfunctioning internalized impulses, unable to do righteousness.

Just the same..... in a world where things go undefined. Bad and evil can be used as synonymous terms.
Evil is harmful thinking. Leading to defending unrighteousness.
Bad is sin - Harmful impulses to make one fall short of righteousness. .

But, when men think evil?
Doing such evil requires making lies to counter God's truth.
Sin requires no such defense to do sin. It just does it because the impulse drives one to do it.


To have 'evil bodies' would indicate total inability to learn, or to follow the laws of good and evil.
Evil is rationalized defiant "lawlessness" in the face of God's law for how man should live.

This can be a tough one.
Jesus died for sin.
Jesus did not die for evil.
Its evil that sends men to Hell, not their sins.

grace and peace ................

The wages for evil is death.

Where did you get that from?

Where did you get that from?

The wages for sin is death

The wages for evil is death

The phrase "the wages of sin is death" comes from the Greek text of Romans 6:23, which reads as follows:

ὁ γὰρ μισθὸς τῆς ἁμαρτίας θάνατος, ὁ δὲ χάρισμα τοῦ θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰώνιος ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν.




Breaking down the verse, we see that "the wages of sin" is translated as "ὁ γὰρ μισθὸς τῆς ἁμαρτίας."

The word "μισθὸς" (misthos) means "wages" or "payment," and "ἁμαρτίας" (hamartias) means "sin." The article "τῆς" (tes) is the genitive case of the feminine definite article, indicating that "sin" is the object of the preposition "of" in the phrase "the wages of sin."

The next phrase, "is death," is translated as "θάνατος" (thanatos), which means "death." The verb "is" is not present in the Greek text, but is implied by the context.

The verse goes on to contrast the wages of sin with "the gift of God," which is translated as "ὁ δὲ χάρισμα τοῦ θεοῦ." The word "χάρισμα" (charisma) means "gift" or "grace," and "θεοῦ" (theou) is the genitive case of "God," indicating that the gift is from God.

The final phrase, "is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord," is translated as "ζωὴ αἰώνιος ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν." The word "ζωὴ" (zoe) means "life," and "αἰώνιος" (aionios) means "eternal." The preposition "ἐν" (en) means "in," indicating that eternal life is found in Christ Jesus. "Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ" (Christo Iesou) is the dative case of "Christ Jesus," indicating that eternal life is found in relationship to Him. Finally, "τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν" (to kyrio hēmōn) means "our Lord," indicating that Christ Jesus is the Lord of believers.

In summary, the phrase "the wages of sin is death" emphasizes the cost of sin, which is death. However, the verse also offers hope through the gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus, which is available to all who believe.
J.

I'm not interested in your word games, or your breaking down of scripture

Where did you get that from?

Evil and sin are not the same things.
Jesus did not die for evil
He died for sins.

We may sin because our flesh hit the right buttons at a moment of weakness.

So, we sinned....

Just utilize 1 John 1:9.
And, our sin is forgiven of us.

Evil is different than sin.

Evil would rationalize and defend your right to commit a sin.

Evil is anti-truth.

Sin is a defective and unrighteous impulsive response to what may be a genuine need, and without any intent to do evil.
On the other hand. Evil would lie and find reasons to say it was not a sin.

grace and peace ............