"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." - God does not love all sinners?

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K

Kenneth

Member
#41
Jan 18, 2024
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#41
God does love all his children; but He does not love all the things that they do. God is just and fair he tells us clearly what we need to do to enter the kingdom of God. God put us here on Earth to find out if we would follow him or would we follow Satan. Every person is born into this world innocent our minds are like a blank slate. Why didn't God just make us all with a mind and a heart to love him? This would not be true love. You mentioned John 3:16; let's go there and take a look at that verse. John 3:16: for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. it is true that this verse says that God loved the world but there is a stipulation in here, but there is a stipulation in here. "That whomsoever whosoever does not mean every man woman and child that has ever been or ever will be here on Earth will automatically receive salvation. let's go on to look at the following few verses far too many people are taught in Sunday School or other places to memorize this verse but they don't go on to learn the next few verses. Verse 17. for God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved. here again this verse says might be saved. God has made the way and Jesus has paid the price we have to choose to be saved and the following him. Verse 18. He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, being he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#42
Jul 8, 2018
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#42
Niki7 said:
EVERY TRANSLATION DISAGREES WITH YOU AND AGREES WITH WHAT I POSTED.

New International Version
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

New Living Translation
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

English Standard Version
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Berean Standard Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Berean Literal Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

King James Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

New King James Version
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

New American Standard Bible
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

NASB 1995
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

NASB 1977
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Legacy Standard Bible
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Amplified Bible
“For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Christian Standard Bible
For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
“For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

American Standard Version
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For God loved the world in this way: so much that he would give up his Son, The Only One, so that everyone who trusts in him shall not be lost, but he shall have eternal life.

Contemporary English Version
God loved the people of this world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who has faith in him will have eternal life and never really die.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

English Revised Version
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God loved the world this way: He gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life.

Good News Translation
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

International Standard Version
"For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.

Literal Standard Version
for God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him may not perish, but may have continuous life.

Majority Standard Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

New American Bible
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

NET Bible
For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

New Revised Standard Version
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

New Heart English Bible
For God loved the world in this way: He gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

Webster's Bible Translation
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Weymouth New Testament
For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages.

World English Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Young's Literal Translation
for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
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That's not surprising at all, in fact I would expect them to. The King James says in Rev 22:19 - And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and the things written in this book.

Scriptures prove scriptures, and I do not base my understanding on any other man made versions, nor on any man's false interpretation of the scriptures
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#43
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#43
Niki7 said:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Jphn 3:16

That's the Bible. We receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ. No one receives the Holy Spirit before they receive Christ. That, is also in the Bible. You can find it in your Bible or be persuaded by people who do not acknowledge what is actually written.

See, you even have a choice in what you are going to believe/accept right there.
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Christ's death on the cross was for the remission of sins only for those that God gave him, and he assured them the promise on an eternal inheritance of heaven (John 6:37-40)

Christ'd death was a sacrifice to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind for their acceptance.

Your theory is based upon salvation by works.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#44
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#44
LeeLoving said:
Hebrews 12:6
King James Version
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

This verse seems to indicate that God does not love all sinners
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I can't see how. :unsure:

God is not to blame if we choose to run away and live as sinners in the far country. The Prodigal Father did not cease to love His absent son. He will receive all who return.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#45
Mar 18, 2021
5,360
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#45
LeeLoving said:
Hebrews 12:6
King James Version
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

This verse seems to indicate that God does not love all sinners, the idea of which seemingly contradicts John 3:16. What I can deduce is that God does not love all sinners the same way, but has a different love for those who are his sons and daughters. He loves the world, but he loves his sons and daughters. I don't know if I can put it into words. I might not be right of course, but it's seemingly what these two verses when taken together indicate.
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God is love, how can He not love sinners? That does not mean that He ignores sin. The wages of sin is still death.
 
Johann

Johann

Active member
#46
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
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#46
LeeLoving said:
Hebrews 12:6
King James Version
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

This verse seems to indicate that God does not love all sinners, the idea of which seemingly contradicts John 3:16. What I can deduce is that God does not love all sinners the same way, but has a different love for those who are his sons and daughters. He loves the world, but he loves his sons and daughters. I don't know if I can put it into words. I might not be right of course, but it's seemingly what these two verses when taken together indicate.
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The question of whether God loves sinners is a significant and complex theological topic that has been the subject of debate and interpretation within Christian theology.

The search results provide a range of perspectives on this issue, citing various scriptural references and interpretations. Here is a summary of the different viewpoints presented in the search results:

God's Love for Sinners: Some sources, such as OpenBible.info and aDevotion.org, emphasize God's love for sinners, citing verses such as John 3:16 and Romans 5:8 as evidence of God's unconditional love for humanity, despite their sinful nature.

God's Displeasure with Sinners: Other sources, including a Reddit post and an article by Frank W. Nelte, present the perspective that God does not love unrepentant sinners. These sources argue that God's love is conditional and that He does not love those who persist in unrepentant sin.

Reconciliation and Redemption: The Sublett Road Baptist Church website highlights the message of reconciliation in 2 Corinthians 5:19, emphasizing that God is not holding people's sins against them and that they can be reconciled to Him through Christ.

Interpretive Differences: The search results also reveal interpretive differences regarding the understanding of specific biblical passages, such as John 3:16, Romans 5:8, and Psalm 7:11, which are cited to support contrasting views on God's love for sinners.

Given the diversity of perspectives presented in the search results, it is evident that the question of whether God loves sinners is a topic that elicits varied interpretations and theological positions within Christianity. The differing viewpoints reflect the complexity of understanding the nature of God's love in relation to human sinfulness and the nuances of biblical interpretation.

So I would rather stay away from online sources since we CAN be selective in what we WANT to hear as opposed to what stands written-Perfect Tense

my 2 cents
J.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#47
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#47
oyster67 said:
I can't see how. :unsure:

God is not to blame if we choose to run away and live as sinners in the far country. The Prodigal Father did not cease to love His absent son. He will receive all who return.
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He never ceased to be his Father's child.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#48
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#48
ForestGreenCook said:
He never ceased to be his Father's child.
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2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#49
Jul 8, 2018
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#49
Gideon300 said:
God is love, how can He not love sinners? That does not mean that He ignores sin. The wages of sin is still death.
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death=separation. When a born again child of God commits a sin, he dies=separates himself from his fellowship with God, until he repents. He is still a child of God, just a disobedient child, that still has the promise of his eternal inheritance of heaven. Same as the wayward son who squandered his gift from his father, he was still his father's son.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#50
Jul 8, 2018
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#50
oyster67 said:
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
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Lets keep it in context. Peter was addressing them that have obtained like precious faith - 2 Pet 1:1.

Peter was giving them a warning, even including himself by using the word "US-WARD"

Peter was telling them that God was not slack concerning his promise of their inheritance of heaven, but is long suffering, not willing that any of them, when they commit a sin, would perish=death=separate themselves from God's fellowship, but that they all should come to repentance.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#51
Mar 18, 2021
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#51
ForestGreenCook said:
death=separation. When a born again child of God commits a sin, he dies=separates himself from his fellowship with God, until he repents. He is still a child of God, just a disobedient child, that still has the promise of his eternal inheritance of heaven. Same as the wayward son who squandered his gift from his father, he was still his father's son.
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*sigh*. We are talking about sinners, not saints. I agree with you, but it was not what the comment was about.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#52
Jul 8, 2018
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#52
Gideon300 said:
*sigh*. We are talking about sinners, not saints. I agree with you, but it was not what the comment was about.
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Saints, when they are walking in the flesh, instead of walking in the Spirit are sinners.
 
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Gideon300

Well-known member
#53
Mar 18, 2021
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#53
ForestGreenCook said:
Saints, when they are walking in the flesh, instead of walking in the Spirit are sinners.
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That is still not the topic of the post. Saints are no longer sinners in the sense that unbelievers sinners. Saints are righteous, holy and alive in Christ. Saints can sin, but they are forgiven. All that is required is to confess the sin and fellowship is restored. Sinners can do what they like to be sorry, show remorse or be penitent. That will not save them.

If Christians focused more on who they are in Christ than they are in self, they would live in victory instead of defeat.
 
J

jamessb

Active member
#54
Feb 10, 2024
738
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Santa Fe NM
#54
ForestGreenCook said:
That's not surprising at all, in fact I would expect them to. The King James says in Rev 22:19 - And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and the things written in this book.

Scriptures prove scriptures, and I do not base my understanding on any other man made versions, nor on any man's false interpretation of the scriptures
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It must be nice to be infallible, especially when it's in one's own mind. To "I do not base my understanding on any other man made versions, nor on any man's false interpretation of the scriptures" you should add "but solely what exists in my own mind".

Don't you realize that John was referring to his vision as written in Revelation, and most definitely not the entire Bible.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#56
#56
ForestGreenCook said:
Christ's death on the cross was for the remission of sins only for those that God gave him, and he assured them the promise on an eternal inheritance of heaven (John 6:37-40)

Christ'd death was a sacrifice to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind for their acceptance.

Your theory is based upon salvation by works.
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God gives His Son EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING who trusts in Christ for their salvation and you have nothing to say about it
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#57
#57
ForestGreenCook said:
That's not surprising at all, in fact I would expect them to. The King James says in Rev 22:19 - And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and the things written in this book.

Scriptures prove scriptures, and I do not base my understanding on any other man made versions, nor on any man's false interpretation of the scriptures
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Right. However you cannot interpret that same scripture while ignoring context and changing the meaning as you continually seem to do
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#58
May 24, 2014
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#58
ForestGreenCook said:
Lets keep it in context. Peter was addressing them that have obtained like precious faith - 2 Pet 1:1.
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You are correct about that verse, but that is not the verse we were discussing. You are not even in the same chapter. Why do you go to such lengths to twist things out of alignment?
 
J

jamessb

Active member
#59
Feb 10, 2024
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Santa Fe NM
#59
ForestGreenCook said:
That's not surprising at all, in fact I would expect them to. The King James says in Rev 22:19 - And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and the things written in this book.

Scriptures prove scriptures, and I do not base my understanding on any other man made versions, nor on any man's false interpretation of the scriptures
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Revelation 22:19 applies only to John's book of prophecy, i.e., Revelation, not to the entire Bible. (BTW, John wrote on a scroll, not a book, so the KJV is using the wrong (misleading) word).

Here is that verse and the one preceding it in the language that we all use every day: "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll." (Why does anyone think this applies to the entire Bible?)

P.S. The King James translation was created by men, so it is obviously a "man-made version". Also, are you seriously claiming that you are infallible???
P.P.S. Why don't you buy and read a modern translation, written in your native language? You would stand a better chance of understanding God's Word clearly and accurately.
 
J

jamessb

Active member
#60
Feb 10, 2024
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Santa Fe NM
#60
ForestGreenCook said:
Christ's death on the cross was for the remission of sins only for those that God gave him, and he assured them the promise on an eternal inheritance of heaven (John 6:37-40)

Christ'd death was a sacrifice to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind for their acceptance.

Your theory is based upon salvation by works.
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You are 100% wrong! Jesus Christ, Savior, paid the penalty for all sins committed by everyone. Do you seriously think that the sacrifice of God incarnate was only partially effective???
 
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