Are the 9 Gifts of the Spirit (1 Cor. 12) in operation today and if not Why?

Jesus received the Holy Spirit after He was baptized. He came up out of the water and then He received the Holy Spirit. Nobody else received the Holy Spirit when baptized by John in the Jordan River, so it is clear that water baptism didn't accomplish receiving the Holy Spirit.

I didn't read any of your lengthy posts. Too long...

John a prophet said this just before Jesus appeared to the people

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

john was imprisoned and Jesus began to preach the gospel after he died for our sins and rose from death Jesus referred back to what John had foretold to them beforehand

“For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence….. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”( we still hear there witness on the nt )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:5, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Okay so clearly Jesus is saying in a few days you’ll be baptized with the spirit like John told them beforhand and a few days later

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

johns prophecy has been fulfilled now peter explains how

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.



……Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33, 38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Whose baptism is that like brother ?

It’s what happened when Jesus was baptized the holy ghost fell upon him and he began preaching the gospel being announced that he is the beloved son of God.

What John said about two baptisms is t about two baptisms he was the water Jesus would later give his spirit like what happened when he was baptized ….baptism is what it’s always been it just needed fulfillment and his name declared throughout creation

ado you note how Jude’s said in a few days you’ll be. A prized with the Holy Ghost and then they just received the holt ghost a few days later ? That’s what it means to receive Jesus Holy Spirit and be called Gods beloved son whose sins are gone now …..

What is Ephesians 4 teaching? I ask respectfully because while John the Baptist baptized with water, he clearly spoke of 2 different baptisms by Jesus. How do you reconcile what John the Baptist teaches and what Paul teaches?

Yeah right Jesus was baptized by John and received the Holy Ghost just like the church is commanded to do and promised to receive after he ascended to heaven ….

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Im not sure you understand what I’m saying since your not reading it hahaha but no worries one less argument the better

…..yeah it was a prophecy fulfilled at pentocost what John had said ….

Every time you read about baptism it’s telling you what that doctrine means it’s telling you what it means to get baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins it’s simple there aren’t several different baptisms where is that coming from brother ? What scriptures are you seeing can you show me what’s got you thinking that ?

The baptism with the Spirit is related to the promise of the Father which Peter acknowledges was what was prophesied by Joel. That took place before the command to be baptized for the remission of sin. I have a difficult time calling them the same thing, particularly since one was administered by Christ and is the Spirit and the other by the disciples and in water
So respectfully, what is Paul's purpose in bringing up baptism in Ephesians 4 and how does it relate to the context of the passage?

“The baptism with the Spirit is related to the promise of the Father which Peter acknowledges was what was prophesied by Joel. “

“That took place before the command to be baptized for the remission of sin.”

what lol ? Brother everyone there had already been baptized in water for remission of sins that existed when John began preaching and baptizing Jesus and all his apostles did it already

oeter is telling the new people he’s trying to convert to Christianity that they need to repent also and be baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins

Like they all had done including Jesus who had no sins and they we’re waiting for johns promise to be fulfilled which it was at pentocost

a now Peter is saying “ get baptized in Jesus name for remission Of sins and you’ll also receive his spirit for the promise is to all as many as he will call “

Je could have said you’ll be baptized with the spirit it’s the same thing it’s the promise Jesus made to those who believe and follow him in the gospel

“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. ….Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 23-24‬ ‭

Are you saying the promise of the Father that Jesus told the disciple's to wait in Jerusalem for wasn't what transpired before Peter ever spoke?

1. Cessationist View:

• This view holds that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, ceased after the apostolic age.
• They believe the Bible describes these gifts as specific to the early church for establishing Christianity and not intended for the present day.
• In this view, salvation and the filling of the Holy Spirit occur simultaneously, and there is no specific subsequent work of grace or experience needed.

2. Charismatic View:

• This view, held by Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians, believes that the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including speaking in tongues, are still available to believers today.
• They see the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a distinct and empowering experience that follows conversion and equips believers for Christian ministry.
• Some within this perspective view speaking in tongues as the initial evidence or initial outward sign of receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
• They believe this experience is a subsequent work of grace that deepens a believer's relationship with God and empowers them for ministry.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

1. If they were already from salvation, empowered to preach the gospel, why were the commanded by Jesus to wait for the promise.
2. We don't question whether or not they were saved before they received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

1. And, being assembled together with them: This sets the scene. Jesus is meeting with his disciples, likely the eleven apostles.
2. Commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem: Jesus instructs his disciples to stay in Jerusalem, not to leave the city.
3. But wait for the promise of the Father: He tells them to wait for something significant. This "promise" refers to the coming of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus had previously mentioned to his disciples (see Luke 24:49, Acts 1:2).
4. Which, saith he, ye have heard of me: Jesus reminds them that he has already spoken about this promise.

The baptism of John - The way to baptizing before Christ died.
The baptism in Jesus' name - NT Way of baptizing.
The Baptism of the Holy Ghost (speaking in tongues) by Jesus Christ.

baptism

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

before jesus declared his name died and rose the spirit wasn’t given baptism for repentance and remission hasnt changed we now know Jesus name and can receive his spirit

what ? Brother in saying something simple this was a prophecy

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is what jesus said after he rose up

“For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a few days later johns prophecy is fulfilled

“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

( I’m saying johns prophecy about what Jesus would do later baptizing then with the spirit has now been fulfilled Peter now begins to reveal what’s happened )

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:( he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost ) And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-4, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and what I’m saying further is this is what’s said to the church by Peter filled with the Holy Ghost not what John said would happen when Jesus came forth but what Peter said to those he was preaching the gospel to and trying to convert to Christianity

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( that’s what Jesus commanded the church to do )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( that’s what John said Jesus would do )

For the promise ( baptism of repentance and remission of sins and receiving his spirit ) is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. praising God, and having favour with all the people.

….And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41, 47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Baptism began n the beginning of the gospel and was complete when Jesus shed his spirit forth ….it’s one water and spirit one is done by us in faith the other is done by Jesus because we believed his promise

Not entirely accurate.

Baptism Existed Before Jesus: The concept of baptism by water existed before Jesus. In the Old Testament, rituals involving washing or cleansing were practiced as a symbol of purification or conversion (Leviticus 8). John the Baptist, Jesus' forerunner, also practiced a baptism of repentance (Mark 1:4).

Jesus Himself Wasn't Baptized "In the Beginning": While the gospel message began with Jesus' ministry, his baptism by John marked a significant turning point (Matthew 3:13-17). It wasn't the "beginning" of baptism itself.

Baptism Continues After Pentecost: The descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2) is a crucial event in the New Testament. However, the statement implies baptism stopped after this event. The Bible clearly shows baptism continued as a practice for new believers throughout the book of Acts (Acts 8:12-13, 10:48, 19:5).

A More Accurate View: Baptism by water is seen as an outward symbol of an inward conversion or commitment to following Jesus. It began before Jesus, continued through his ministry, and is still practiced by Christians today. The descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost marked a shift in the emphasis of baptism, but it didn't mark its end.

Many people claim this but it is simply not true. At least not true as far as the Bible is concerned.

But the Talmud is not the Bible, and there is an immersion in water called "mikvah" or "mikveh" which it recommends. But here's the truth: "Before the beginning of the first century BCE, neither written sources nor archaeology gives any indication about the existence of specific installations used for ritual cleansing.[7][8][9] Mikvoth appear at the beginning of the first century BC..." -- Wikipedia

Exodus 6:6 And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.

And Moses brought Aaron and his sons: This follows God's instructions to Moses to bring his brother Aaron (who would become the High Priest) and his sons (who would assist him).
and washed them with water: This act of washing was symbolic of purification and preparation. It signifies their separation for a sacred task - serving God and representing him before the Israelites.


Cleanliness in the Tabernacle: Ritual washing was a common practice for priests and Levites before entering the tabernacle, a portable sanctuary, to symbolize their cleanliness and dedication to God. (Exodus 30:17-21)
Symbolic Cleansing: Washing is used in the Bible to represent cleansing from sin.

• Naaman's Healing: In 2 Kings 5, the prophet Elisha instructs the leper Naaman to wash seven times in the Jordan River to be healed. This act symbolizes not just physical cleansing but also the removal of his spiritual impurity.

A few instances that I found. But you're right about no archaeology gives any indication about the existence of specific installations used for ritual cleansing.

Nehemiah6 said:

Before the beginning of the first century BCE, neither written sources nor archaeology gives any indication about the existence of specific installations used for ritual cleansing.

Click to expand...

The statement that no archaeological evidence exists for installations used for ritual cleansing in the Old Testament is not accurate. Archaeological findings have indeed provided evidence of installations that were likely used for ritual purifications, which are consistent with descriptions found in the Hebrew Bible.

One of the most significant pieces of evidence comes from the discovery of numerous "mikva'ot" (singular: mikveh), which are ritual baths used for the purpose of ritual immersion in Judaism. These installations are associated with the practice of ritual purity, which was an important aspect of Jewish religious life. Mikva'ot have been found in various locations throughout Israel, including Jerusalem, Qumran (near the Dead Sea), and Masada. These baths typically consist of a pool of water that is connected to a natural, "living" water source, such as rainwater or spring water, which is a requirement for the mikveh to be considered valid for ritual purification according to Jewish law.

For example, the archaeological excavations in the City of David, the historical core of ancient Jerusalem, have uncovered mikva'ot that date back to the Second Temple period. These findings suggest that ritual purity was taken very seriously in Jewish society and that installations for ritual cleansing were indeed a part of the infrastructure supporting religious practices.

The discovery of mikva'ot at Qumran is particularly significant, as this site is associated with the Essenes, a Jewish sect that lived during the Second Temple period and is often linked to the Dead Sea Scrolls. The presence of numerous ritual baths at Qumran underscores the importance of ritual purity to this community.

While the specific term "mikveh" might not appear in the Old Testament, the concept of ritual purification and the use of water for cleansing is well-documented in the Hebrew Bible. For instance, Leviticus contains detailed laws about purity and impurity, including instructions for washing and cleansing (e.g., Leviticus 15).

If archaeological evidence for installations used for ritual cleansing from the Old Testament period were scarce, it could be due to several factors, including the passage of time, construction over ancient sites, and the nature of archaeological preservation. However, the existence of mikva'ot from periods closely following the Old Testament era (Second Temple period) indicates a continuation of practices that likely have their roots in earlier traditions described in the biblical texts.

In summary, archaeological findings, particularly the discovery of mikva'ot, provide tangible evidence for the practice of ritual purification in ancient Jewish society, corroborating the biblical descriptions of such practices. These findings illustrate the historical basis for ritual cleansing in Judaism and the importance of purity in the religious life of the Jewish people.

Your Bible reference is incorrect. That is Exodus 40:12: And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash* them with water.
*וְרָחַצְתָּ֥ wə-rā-ḥaṣ-tā
This means "wash", not "baptize", and not "immerse".
Strong's Concordance
rachats: to wash, wash off or away, bathe
Original Word: רָחַץ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: rachats
Phonetic Spelling: (raw-khats')
Definition: to wash, wash off or away, bathe
That means nothing. Ritual purification is exactly that -- a ritual. So let's stop promoting a false idea. Genuine baptism began with John the Baptist, and God would have told him what to do, since he would also baptize Christ.

Thanks for your comments and correcting my scripture error and God Bless.

John the Baptist was sent by God to establish baptism in preparation for Christ and the gospel. He is subject of several prophecies God almighty sent John the Baptist to establish baptism in the earth and to preach Christ who would himself later pour out his spirit on believers of the gospel

baptism is not a mystery when we don’t accept it for what the word says it is we create a mystery

This is the only reason Christian’s talk about baptism

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. ( Malachi 3:1)

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. and preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. ( jesus is baptized and receives the spirit )


And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2, 4-5, 7-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is baptism God established it it is fulfillment of several Old Testament prophecies preparing the sinful people of Israel to receive thier messiah by offering them repentance and remission of thier sins

“But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah , to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:13, 15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That was John the Baptizers place

he is the baptizer God sent filled with the holt ghost preaching of Jesus and faith in him announcing to israel this truth

If we really want to
Know more about it let’s keep reading

“And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all.

…And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; For he hath visited and redeemed his people, As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies Might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. ( Abraham’s promise has come the time is at hand the people are coming to John because they believe he’s the messiahs predecessor from prophecy )

And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: For thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people By the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God; Whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, To guide our feet into the way of peace. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:63, 67-68, 70, 73-80‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s where baptism came from ot is well established. By God who sent the baptizer John to fulfill prophecy and prepare israel for the messiah through repentance and remission of sins

what then did John establish before Jesus began preaching the gospel ?

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what did Jesus say would be preached to all nations ?

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


What is it that Peter commands at pentocost in Jerusalem for new converts who believed his preaching the gospel ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what else did Jesus tell
His disciples to do for all nations ?

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-19‬ ‭

and what else did he say about it ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but were they still baptizing in water ?

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still:

and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭

Baptism is the simplest thing it’s basic doctrine it only gets complex when people stray from what’s taught about it in the Bible

baptism was established by God he sent the first baptizer who baptized Jesus and all the regions around him came to him believing the messiah would be revealed like the prophets had foretold baptism has a purpose it is for repentance and remission of sins

Or rather for the remission of the sins of the repentant it’s like anything else God said to do and you’ll have a result it’s no different than this

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Had Moses not just listened and acted believing what he said it wouldn’t have had any meaning what God told him baptism is about hearing what is written about it it’s not complex and contradictory it’s always about remission of sins in Christs death and new life in his resurrection

10:
1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea