ELECTION/PREDESTINATION AND THE NEED FOR A THEOLOGICAL BALANCE

Jesus died for ALL PEOPLE so He could redeem a people.

He died for the WHOLE Group of people to get just a few.

Basically, He died for the entire world of people to get a single nation of people.

But the fact is that He died for ALL PEOPLE!

I love Voddie Baucham

Sad he gave up his church to be Dean of Theology in Africa but the man could preach and I loved it.

ELECTION/PREDESTINATION AND THE NEED FOR A THEOLOGICAL BALANCE

Election is a wonderful doctrine. However, it is not a call to favoritism, but a call to be a channel, a tool, or means of others' redemption! In the Old Testament the term was used primarily for service; in the New Testament it is used primarily for salvation which issues in service. The Bible never reconciles the seeming contradiction between God's sovereignty and mankind's free will, but affirms them both! A good example of the biblical tension would be Romans 9 on God's sovereign choice and Romans 10 on mankind's necessary response (cf. Rom. 10:11,13; also note Phil. 2:12-13).

The key to this theological tension may be found in Ephesians 1:4. Jesus is God's elect man and all are potentially elect in Him (Karl Barth). Jesus is God's "yes" to fallen mankind's need (Karl Barth). Ephesians 1:4 also helps clarify the issue by asserting that the goal of predestination is not heaven, but holiness (Christlikeness). We are often attracted to the benefits of the gospel and ignore the responsibilities! God's call (election) is for time as well as eternity!

Doctrines come in relation to other truths, not as single, unrelated truths A good analogy would be a constellation versus a single star. God presents truth in eastern, not western, genres. We must not remove the tension caused by dialectical (paradoxical) pairs of doctrinal truths:

predestination vs. human free will
security of the believers vs. the need for perseverance
original sin vs. volitional sin
sinlessness (perfectionism) vs. sinning less
initial instantaneous justification and sanctification vs. progressive sanctification
Christian freedom vs. Christian responsibility
God's transcendence vs. God's immanence
God as ultimately unknowable vs. God as knowable in Scripture
the Kingdom of God as present vs. future consummation
repentance as a gift of God vs. repentance as a necessary human covenantal response
Jesus as divine vs. Jesus as human
Jesus as equal to the Father vs. Jesus as subservient to the Father
The theological concept of "covenant" unites the sovereignty of God (who always takes the initiative and sets the agenda) with a mandatory initial and continuing repentant faith response from mankind (cf. Mark 1:15; Acts 3:16,19; 20:21; ). Be careful of proof-texting one side of the paradox and depreciating the other! Be careful of asserting only your favorite doctrine or system of theology!

Titus 2:11 is a balance to other NT passages on election. I thought it might be theologically helpful to provide my commentary notes from Romans 8:29 and chapter 9, as well as Ephesians 1.

Romans 8:29 ‒ Paul uses "foreknew" (proginōskō, "to know before") twice, here and 11:2. In 11:2 it refers to God's covenant love for Israel before time began. Remember that the term "know" in Hebrew related to intimate, personal relationship, not to facts about someone (cf. Gen. 4:1; Jer. 1:5). Here it was included in a chain of eternal events (cf. Rom. 8:29-30). This term was linked with predestination. However, it must be stated that God's foreknowledge is not the basis of election because if that were so, then election would be based on fallen humanity's future response, which would be human performance. This term is also found in Acts 26:5; 1 Pet. 1:2,20 and 2 Pet. 3:17.
"foreknew" (proginōskō, "to know before")
 
The terms "foreknow" and "predestine" are both compounds with the preposition "before" and, therefore, should be translated "to know before," "to set bounds before," or "mark off before." The definitive passages on predestination in the NT are Rom. 8:28-30; Eph. 1:13-14; and Romans 9. These texts obviously stress that God is sovereign. He is in total control of all things. There is a preset divine plan being worked out in time. However, this plan is not arbitrary or selective. It is based, not only on God's sovereignty and foreknowledge, but on His unchanging character of love, mercy, and undeserved grace.

 The truth is a balance between the seemingly opposite pairs. We must not remove the tension by picking one of the truths. We must not isolate any biblical truth into a compartment by itself.
 It is also important to add that the goal of election is not only heaven when we die, but Christlikeness now (cf. Rom. 8:29-30; 2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 2:10; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3; 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:13; Titus 2:14; 1 Pet. 1:15). We were chosen to be "holy and blameless." God chooses to change us so that others may see the change and respond by faith to God in Christ. Predestination is not a personal privilege, but a covenantal responsibility. This is the major truth of the passage. This is the goal of Christianity. Holiness is God's will for every believer. God's election is to Christlikeness (cf. Eph. 1:4), not a special standing. The image of God, which was given to man in creation (cf. Gen. 1:26; 5:1,3; 9:6), is to be restored.
"conformed to the image of His Son" ‒ God's ultimate goal is the restoration of the image lost in the Fall. Believers are foreordained to Christlikeness (cf. Eph. 1:4).

Romans 9
Romans 9 is one of the strongest NT passages on God's sovereignty (the other being Eph. 1:3-14), while chapter 10 states humans' free will clearly and repeatedly (cf. "everyone" Rom. 9:4; "whosoever" 9:11,13; "all" 9:12 [twice]). Paul never tries to reconcile this theological tension. They are both true! Most Bible doctrines are presented in paradoxical or dialectical pairs. Most systems of theology are logical half-truths. Augustinianism and Calvinism versus semi-Pelegianism and Arminianism have elements of truth and error. Biblical tension between doctrines is preferable to a proof-texted, dogmatic, rational, theological system that forces the Bible onto a preconceived interpretive grid.
This same truth (found in Rom. 9:23) is stated in Rom. 8:29-30 and Eph. 1:4,11. This chapter is the strongest expression of God's sovereignty in the NT. There can be no dispute that God is in total charge of creation and redemption. This great truth should never be softened or diminished. However, it must be balanced with God's choice of covenant as a means of relating to human creation, made in His image. It is surely true that some OT covenants, like Genesis 15, are unconditional and do not relate at all to human response, but other covenants are conditioned on human response (e.g., Eden, Noah, Moses, David). God has a plan of redemption for His creation; no human can affect this plan. God has chosen to allow individuals to participate in His plans. This opportunity for participation is a theological tension between sovereignty (Romans 9) and human free will (Romans 10).
 It is not appropriate to select one biblical emphasis and ignore another. There is tension between doctrines because eastern people present truth in dialectical or tension-filled pairs. Doctrines must be held in relationship to other doctrines. Truth is a mosaic of truths.

Ephesians 1
Election is a wonderful doctrine. However, it is not a call to favoritism, but a call to be a channel, a tool, or means of others' redemption! In the OT the term was used primarily for service; in the NT it is used primarily for salvation which issues in service. The Bible never reconciles the seeming contradiction between God's sovereignty and mankind's free will, but affirms them both! A good example of the biblical tension would be Romans 9 on God's sovereign choice and Romans 10 on mankind's necessary response (cf. 10:11,13).
 The key to this theological tension may be found in 1:4. Jesus is God's elect man and all are potentially elect in Him (Karl Barth). Jesus is God's "yes" to fallen mankind's need (Karl Barth). Ephesians 1:4 also helps clarify the issue by asserting that the goal of predestination is not heaven only, but holiness (Christlikeness). We are often attracted to the benefits of the gospel and ignore the responsibilities! God's call (election) is for time as well as eternity!
 Doctrines come in relation to other truths, not as single, unrelated truths. A good analogy would be a constellation versus a single star. God presents truth in eastern, not western, genres. We must not remove the tension caused by dialectical (paradoxical) pairs of doctrinal truths (God as transcendent versus God as immanent; security vs. perseverance; Jesus as equal with the Father vs. Jesus as subservient to the Father; Christian freedom vs. Christian responsibility to a covenant partner, etc).
 

No need to talk about context since the context makes it perfectly clear as to what predestination is all about. No need for lengthy responses either. Something is either false or true, and the "U" of TULIP is false.

And that totally undercuts the Calvinistic notion of election and predestination for salvation. This is further reinforced by Romans 8:29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So if unconditional election ("U") is false, so is the rest of TULIP.

The doctrine of election and predestination is indissolubly intertwined IN Soteria.

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

For - as touching this "calling according to His purpose,"
Whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate - or 'fore-ordain.' In what sense are we to take the word "foreknow" here?

'Those who He foreknew would repent and believe,' say Pelagians of every age and every hue.

But this is to thrust into the text what is contrary to the whole spirit, and even letter, of the apostle's teaching, as will appear from the following chapter; see also 2Ti_1:9. In Rom_11:2 and Psa_1:6

God's "knowledge" of His people cannot be restricted to a mere foresight of future events, or acquaintance with what is passing here below. Does "whom He did foreknow," then, mean 'whom He fore-ordained?'

That can hardly be, since both words are here used, and the thing meant by the one is spoken of as the cause of what is intended by the other. It is difficult, indeed, for our limited minds to distinguish them as states of the Divine Mind toward men, especially since in Act_2:23, "the counsel" is put before "the foreknowledge of God," while in 1Pe_1:2, "election" is said to be "according to the foreknowledge of God."

But probably God's "foreknowledge" of His own people means His special, gracious complacency in them, while His "predestinating" or "fore-ordaining" them signifies His fixed purpose, flowing from this, to "save them and call them with an holy calling" (2Ti_1:9). 'According to Pauline doctrine (says Olshausen-and the testimony is remarkable from a Lutheran) there is a predestination of saints, in the proper sense of the words: that is, not that God knows beforehand that they will by their own decision be holy, but that he creates this very decision in them.'

[To be] conformed to the image of his Son , [ summorfous (G4832)] - or, 'be counterparts of His Son's image;' to be sons, that is, after the pattern or I model of His Sonship in our nature,
That he might be the first-born among many brethren - the First-born being the Son by nature; His "many brethren" sons by adoption: He, in the Humanity of the Only-begotten of the Father, bearing our sins on the accursed tree; they in that of mere men ready to perish by reason of sin, but redeemed by His blood from condemnation and wrath, and transformed into his likeness: He "the First-born from the dead;" they "that sleep in Jesus" to be in due time "brought with Him:" "The First-born," already "crowned with glory and honour;" His "many brethren," "when He shall appear, to be like Him, for they shall see Him as he is."

All this will make NO sense if you believe in prescience Grace.

He for knows everyone, he also gives his grace to everyone to. 😊

The gospel demands humility. What reason do true Christians have to boast? We were dead in sin
and distant from God. Satan ruled us, and God’s wrath burned against us. If we have spiritual life,
it is entirely due to God’s grace in Christ. Why then do we look down on others? Who makes us to
differ? Let us prostrate ourselves before the Lord Jesus, give all glory to God, and learn the
meekness of the dove-like Spirit.
2. Believers are richer than kings. They are joined with none other than Jesus Christ, seated with Him
in heavenly places. They are re-created with the risen Christ as their Adam. God will show how
great He is by pouring out kindness upon them for all eternity. All of this is by grace through the
great sufferings of Christ on the cross. If we are truly saved, we should bless God and sing His
praises all our lives.
3. All nations are one at the foot of the cross. Despite our tendency to exalt ourselves and judge
others based on race or culture, all believers are one and Christ is all. Let us therefore repent of our
arrogance and welcome one another.
4. There is no sweeter place on earth than the gathered church. She is the temple of the living God,
the dwelling place of His Spirit. Love the church. Serve the church. Stop complaining about the
church. She is still under construction—as are her members.

After the godly reign of Hezekiah, Manasseh departed from the ways of the Lord. The heart of man
is inclined to all wickedness. Godliness is not automatically inherited. Every man must receive
heart-renewing grace. This is a personal matter. Every generation must discover the blessing of
fearing the Lord. By nature we all have a wicked heart. Therefore the Lord Jesus teaches us that we
must be born again (John 3:3). Let us emphasize this necessity and pray for this grace, that our
eyes may be opened, our hearts circumcised, and our lives renewed. Children, do not take for
granted that because your parents are Christians you are a Christian. Conversion is personal.

The gospel is a set of proof texts. And the purpose of the gospel.

Is to proclaim The good news of what God has done in and through Jesus Christ, so that people will respond by repentance.

The change that is demanded is when the person who excepts the lord is then changed by what the cross demands.

That would be the sword of the spirit.

If such sword circumcises the heart, then such person will be changed,

And such person will hear the demands and respond.

By God's grace this salvation is offered to all people, and everyone, as God speaks to the heart and judges all Hearts, he does so because he needs to.. And every person knows that God had a son called Jesus.

Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
Rom 3:14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
Rom 3:15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
Rom 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.
Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
Rom 3:14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
Rom 3:15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
Rom 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.
Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

every sinner is given the chance to the change
are you trying to make a case for Calvinism again, ?

You've left Romans 12 out

Where you are told to offer yourself as a living sacrifice.

This chapter begins to tell us the response of true holiness that should follow the
glorious truths that have been unfolded.
Devotion to the Lord Shown in the Church and in Our Conduct to All (12:1–21)
12:1 beseech. Exhort, urge. therefore. In gratitude for the mercies of God (Ps. 116:12), just described in
this glorious gospel of Christ (1:18—11:36). your bodies. Once the instruments of sin, but now to be
employed for God in holiness (6:13). living sacrifice. As those reconciled to God and given close access
to Him by Christ’s sacrifice (5:1,10–11), believers are now to live as priests, constantly presenting their
whole lives in God’s presence as offerings for God’s pleasure (1 Peter 2:5). reasonable service.
Conscious obedience for the glory of God.
12:2 will of God. The standard aimed at, which makes us different from the world. This is the
preceptive (Matt. 7:21), not the decretive will of God (Eph. 1:11). See note at Rom. 1:9–12.
12:3–5 Humility, realism, and diligence about our gifts for use in the body are necessary. Each gift is to
be exercised as being God-given, and we are to accept it with trust in the Lord for the continued grace to
use it (the measure of faith).
So you want to skip the doctrinal teachings of Paul and go into the "practical stuff?"

This phrase is both tender and tough. It is a call to appropriate living. Paul often uses this term (cf. Rom. 12:1;15:30; 16:17; 1 Cor. 1:10; 4:16; 16:15; 2 Cor. 2:8; 5:20; 6:1; 10:1; 12:8; Eph. 4:1; Phil. 4:2; 1 Thess. 4:10; 1 Tim. 1:3; Philemon 9-10).
"brethren" Paul often uses this term to introduce a new subject.

"by the mercies of God"
In the LXX this describes the compassionate nature of YHWH (cf. Exod. 34:6). Here it refers to the doctrinal progression of Romans 1-11.--which you conveniently want to jump over-- There is an obvious emphasis in Romans on the "mercy" (both oikîeirô and eleeô) of God in dealing with fallen humanity (cf. Rom. 9:15,16,18,23; 11:30,31,32; 12:8; 15:9). Because God's grace and mercy are offered freely, believers must live godly lives (cf. Eph. 1:4; 2:10) out of gratitude, not merit (cf. Eph. 2:8-9). The new lives (i.e., Col. 3:9,10,12) are meant to turn others to faith in Christ!

"to present"
This is an aorist infinitive. This was one of several sacrificial terms used in this context: sacrifice, Rom. 12:1; holy, Rom. 12:1; acceptable, Rom. 12:1. This same concept is expressed in Rom. 6:13,16,19. Humans will either give themselves to God or to Satan.--You have to agree with this-- As Christ gave Himself uniquely to do the Father's will, even death on a cross, His followers must also emulate His selfless living (cf. 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Gal. 2:20; 1 John 3:16).

"your bodies"
Christianity is different from so much of Greek philosophy, which thought the physical body was evil. It is the arena of temptation but it is morally neutral. The term "body" seems to parallel "mind" in Rom. 12:2. Believers need to commit their entire being to God (cf. Deut. 6:5; 1 Cor. 6:20) as they had previously committed it to sin (cf. Romans 6).

"a living"
This was radically different from the dead offerings of the Jewish or pagan temples (cf. Rom. 6:13; Gal. 2:20).
It must also be differentiated from asceticism (the harsh treatment of the physical body for religious purposes). It is not the body's isolation, punishment or celibacy that is advocated, but an active life of service and Christlike love.

"and holy sacrifice"
The term "holy" means "set apart for God's service." The focus of this term in this context is on the believer's consecration and availability to be used by God for His purposes.

"acceptable to God"
This refers to an appropriate offering in the OT (cf. Rom. 12:2). This is similar to the concept of "blameless," when used to refer to people (cf. Gen. 6:9; 17:1; Deut. 18:13; Job 1:1).
NASB "which is your spiritual service of worship"
NKJV "which is your reasonable service"
NRSV "which is your spiritual worship"
TEV "This is the true worship that you should offer."
NJB "in a way that is worthy of thinking beings"

This term [logikos] is derived from logizomai, meaning "to reason" (cf. Mark 11:31; 1 Cor. 13:11; Phil. 4:8). In this context it could mean rational or reasonable. But the term also was used in a sense of "spiritual," as in 1 Pet. 2:2. The essence seems to be a conscious offering of one's true self versus the dead or ritual offerings of dead sacrificial animals. God wants our lives in love and service to Him, not formalistic procedures that do not impact daily living.

12:2 "do not be conformed" This is apresent passive imperative (or perfect middle) with the negative particle which usually means to stop an act already in process.

There is a contrast to Rom. 12:2 similar to the one in Phil. 2:6-8, between the outward changing form (schema, 2:8) and the inner unchanging essence (morphe, 2:6-7).

Believers are exhorted not to continue to be like the changing, fallen world system (the old age of rebellion) of which they are still physically a part, but to be radically changed into Christlikeness (the new age of the Spirit).

"to this world" This is literally the term "age." The Jews saw two ages (cf. Matt. 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 20:34-35), the current evil age (cf. Gal. 1:4; 2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 2:2) and the age to come (cf. Matt. 28:20; Heb. 1:3; 1 John 2:15-17). Believers live in the tension-filled time in which these ages have surprisingly been overlapped. Because of the two comings of Christ, believers live in the "already and not yet" tension of the Kingdom of God as both present and yet future.

"be transformed" Believers must be transformed (cf. Rom. 6:4; 7:6; 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15; Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:10), not just informed! The grammatical form of this term can be present middle imperative, "continue to transform yourselves" or present passive imperative, "continue to be transformed." This is also true of "conform" in Rom. 12:2a. For a similar contrast compare Ezek. 18:31 (human commitment and action) with Ezek 36:26-27 (divine gift). Both are needed!

A form of this same word for "formed" is used of Jesus at the Transfiguration (cf. Matt. 17:2), where His true essence was revealed. This true divine essence (cf. 2 Pet. 1:3-4) is to be formed in every believer (cf. 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:13).

"by the renewing of your mind" This is from the Greek root for new in quality (kainos) not new in time (chronos). For the Jews the senses of sight and hearing were the windows of the soul. What one thinks about, one becomes. After salvation, because of the indwelling Spirit, believers have a new perspective (cf. Eph. 4:13,23; Titus 3:5). This new biblical worldview, along with the indwelling Spirit, is what transforms the mind and lifestyle of new believers. Believers look at reality in a totally different way because their minds have been energized by the Spirit. A new redeemed, Spirit-led mind results in a new lifestyle! This is what the new covenant promised (cf. Jer. 31:31-34).

"that you may prove what the will of God is" This is a present infinitive. The word (dokimazô) is used with the connotation of "to test with a view toward approval." Rom. 2:18.
The will of God is that all be saved through Christ (cf. John 6:39-40), and then live like Christ (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; Gal. 4:19, Eph. 1:4; 4:13,15; 5:17-18). Christian assurance is based on
1. the promises of a trustworthy God
2. the indwelling Holy Spirit (cf. Rom. 8:14-16)
3. believer's changed and changing life (cf. James & 1 John) "no fruit, no root" (cf. Matt. 13:1-9, 19-23)


"that which is good and acceptable and perfect" These represent God's will for believers after salvation (cf. Phil. 4:4-9). God's goal for every believer is Christlike maturity now (cf. Matt. 5:48).

"perfect" This term means "mature, fully equipped to accomplish an assigned task," "ripe" or "complete." It does not mean "sinless." It was used of
1. arms and legs that had been broken but were healed and restored to usefulness
2. fishing nets that had torn but were mended and useful for catching fish again
3. baby chickens now old enough to go to market as fryers
4. ships rigged for sailing

This chapter begins to tell us the response of true holiness that should follow the
glorious truths that have been unfolded.
Devotion to the Lord Shown in the Church and in Our Conduct to All (12:1–21)
12:1 beseech. Exhort, urge. therefore. In gratitude for the mercies of God (Ps. 116:12), just described in
this glorious gospel of Christ (1:18—11:36). your bodies. Once the instruments of sin, but now to be
employed for God in holiness (6:13). living sacrifice. As those reconciled to God and given close access
to Him by Christ’s sacrifice (5:1,10–11), believers are now to live as priests, constantly presenting their
whole lives in God’s presence as offerings for God’s pleasure (1 Peter 2:5). reasonable service.
Conscious obedience for the glory of God.
12:2 will of God. The standard aimed at, which makes us different from the world. This is the
preceptive (Matt. 7:21), not the decretive will of God (Eph. 1:11). See note at Rom. 1:9–12.
12:3–5 Humility, realism, and diligence about our gifts for use in the body are necessary. Each gift is to
be exercised as being God-given, and we are to accept it with trust in the Lord for the continued grace to
use it (the measure of faith).
So you want to skip the doctrinal teachings of Paul and go into the "practical stuff?"

This phrase is both tender and tough. It is a call to appropriate living. Paul often uses this term (cf. Rom. 12:1;15:30; 16:17; 1 Cor. 1:10; 4:16; 16:15; 2 Cor. 2:8; 5:20; 6:1; 10:1; 12:8; Eph. 4:1; Phil. 4:2; 1 Thess. 4:10; 1 Tim. 1:3; Philemon 9-10).
"brethren" Paul often uses this term to introduce a new subject.

"by the mercies of God"
In the LXX this describes the compassionate nature of YHWH (cf. Exod. 34:6). Here it refers to the doctrinal progression of Romans 1-11.--which you conveniently want to jump over-- There is an obvious emphasis in Romans on the "mercy" (both oikîeirô and eleeô) of God in dealing with fallen humanity (cf. Rom. 9:15,16,18,23; 11:30,31,32; 12:8; 15:9). Because God's grace and mercy are offered freely, believers must live godly lives (cf. Eph. 1:4; 2:10) out of gratitude, not merit (cf. Eph. 2:8-9). The new lives (i.e., Col. 3:9,10,12) are meant to turn others to faith in Christ!

"to present"
This is an aorist infinitive. This was one of several sacrificial terms used in this context: sacrifice, Rom. 12:1; holy, Rom. 12:1; acceptable, Rom. 12:1. This same concept is expressed in Rom. 6:13,16,19. Humans will either give themselves to God or to Satan.--You have to agree with this-- As Christ gave Himself uniquely to do the Father's will, even death on a cross, His followers must also emulate His selfless living (cf. 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Gal. 2:20; 1 John 3:16).

"your bodies"
Christianity is different from so much of Greek philosophy, which thought the physical body was evil. It is the arena of temptation but it is morally neutral. The term "body" seems to parallel "mind" in Rom. 12:2. Believers need to commit their entire being to God (cf. Deut. 6:5; 1 Cor. 6:20) as they had previously committed it to sin (cf. Romans 6).

"a living"
This was radically different from the dead offerings of the Jewish or pagan temples (cf. Rom. 6:13; Gal. 2:20).
It must also be differentiated from asceticism (the harsh treatment of the physical body for religious purposes). It is not the body's isolation, punishment or celibacy that is advocated, but an active life of service and Christlike love.

"and holy sacrifice"
The term "holy" means "set apart for God's service." The focus of this term in this context is on the believer's consecration and availability to be used by God for His purposes.

"acceptable to God"
This refers to an appropriate offering in the OT (cf. Rom. 12:2). This is similar to the concept of "blameless," when used to refer to people (cf. Gen. 6:9; 17:1; Deut. 18:13; Job 1:1).
NASB "which is your spiritual service of worship"
NKJV "which is your reasonable service"
NRSV "which is your spiritual worship"
TEV "This is the true worship that you should offer."
NJB "in a way that is worthy of thinking beings"

This term [logikos] is derived from logizomai, meaning "to reason" (cf. Mark 11:31; 1 Cor. 13:11; Phil. 4:8). In this context it could mean rational or reasonable. But the term also was used in a sense of "spiritual," as in 1 Pet. 2:2. The essence seems to be a conscious offering of one's true self versus the dead or ritual offerings of dead sacrificial animals. God wants our lives in love and service to Him, not formalistic procedures that do not impact daily living.

12:2 "do not be conformed" This is apresent passive imperative (or perfect middle) with the negative particle which usually means to stop an act already in process.

There is a contrast to Rom. 12:2 similar to the one in Phil. 2:6-8, between the outward changing form (schema, 2:8) and the inner unchanging essence (morphe, 2:6-7).

Believers are exhorted not to continue to be like the changing, fallen world system (the old age of rebellion) of which they are still physically a part, but to be radically changed into Christlikeness (the new age of the Spirit).

"to this world" This is literally the term "age." The Jews saw two ages (cf. Matt. 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 20:34-35), the current evil age (cf. Gal. 1:4; 2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 2:2) and the age to come (cf. Matt. 28:20; Heb. 1:3; 1 John 2:15-17). Believers live in the tension-filled time in which these ages have surprisingly been overlapped. Because of the two comings of Christ, believers live in the "already and not yet" tension of the Kingdom of God as both present and yet future.

"be transformed" Believers must be transformed (cf. Rom. 6:4; 7:6; 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15; Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:10), not just informed! The grammatical form of this term can be present middle imperative, "continue to transform yourselves" or present passive imperative, "continue to be transformed." This is also true of "conform" in Rom. 12:2a. For a similar contrast compare Ezek. 18:31 (human commitment and action) with Ezek 36:26-27 (divine gift). Both are needed!

A form of this same word for "formed" is used of Jesus at the Transfiguration (cf. Matt. 17:2), where His true essence was revealed. This true divine essence (cf. 2 Pet. 1:3-4) is to be formed in every believer (cf. 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:13).

"by the renewing of your mind" This is from the Greek root for new in quality (kainos) not new in time (chronos). For the Jews the senses of sight and hearing were the windows of the soul. What one thinks about, one becomes. After salvation, because of the indwelling Spirit, believers have a new perspective (cf. Eph. 4:13,23; Titus 3:5). This new biblical worldview, along with the indwelling Spirit, is what transforms the mind and lifestyle of new believers. Believers look at reality in a totally different way because their minds have been energized by the Spirit. A new redeemed, Spirit-led mind results in a new lifestyle! This is what the new covenant promised (cf. Jer. 31:31-34).

"that you may prove what the will of God is" This is a present infinitive. The word (dokimazô) is used with the connotation of "to test with a view toward approval." Rom. 2:18.
The will of God is that all be saved through Christ (cf. John 6:39-40), and then live like Christ (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; Gal. 4:19, Eph. 1:4; 4:13,15; 5:17-18). Christian assurance is based on
1. the promises of a trustworthy God
2. the indwelling Holy Spirit (cf. Rom. 8:14-16)
3. believer's changed and changing life (cf. James & 1 John) "no fruit, no root" (cf. Matt. 13:1-9, 19-23)


"that which is good and acceptable and perfect" These represent God's will for believers after salvation (cf. Phil. 4:4-9). God's goal for every believer is Christlike maturity now (cf. Matt. 5:48).

"perfect" This term means "mature, fully equipped to accomplish an assigned task," "ripe" or "complete." It does not mean "sinless." It was used of
1. arms and legs that had been broken but were healed and restored to usefulness
2. fishing nets that had torn but were mended and useful for catching fish again
3. baby chickens now old enough to go to market as fryers
4. ships rigged for sailing

who is Romans 3 speaking to,

Is speaking to people outside of the church, or it's own people inside of the church ?

"let God be found true, though every man be found a liar" This is a present middle imperative. --You do know what a Present Imperative is-right?

This construction focuses on the continuing state of the subject;--Who is the subject?

God is faithful and truthful , humans are unfaithful and liars! This is an allusion to Ps. 116:11 and is similar to what Job had to learn in Rom. 32:2; 40:8.
Notice the universal element of sinfulness in this chapter, represented by Paul's use of pas (all, every) in Rom. 3:4,9,12,19,20,23,24,--

A quotation from Pss. 14:1–3; 53:1–3, using the Greek translation of the Old Testament known
as the Septuagint. The two psalms are largely identical except that in Ps. 14 the name “Jehovah” (LORD)
is used, perhaps with respect to the wicked in Israel, whereas in Ps. 53 “Elohim” (God) replaces it,
perhaps to speak of Israel’s pagan enemies. This double reference is fitting, as the apostle is showing
that Jew and Gentile are both under sin.

3:11 The mind is darkened (1:21–22), and the will is in bondage to sin (6:20).

3:12 Man’s inner depravity is shown in his practice.

3:13–18 Paul quotes from Pss. 5:9; 10:7; 140:3; Isa. 59:7–8; and Ps. 36:1 (in that order), describing
man’s deadly corruption in every area of life, including speech (tongues), actions (feet), and perspective
(eyes). fear of God. Man lacks the beginning of wisdom (Prov. 9:10), and from this failure to reverence
God’s majesty flow all the disorders of human society (1:21–32).

3:19 The law speaks to all, whether or not men have the Scriptures (2:14–15), and it condemns all. This
should stop every mouth now and will do so at the judgment.

3:20 There is no hope of earning acceptance with God by trying to keep God’s law. What the law does
do, when correctly understood, is expose our sin as in a mirror (by the law is the knowledge of sin).

Define "Church" for me
J.

"let God be found true, though every man be found a liar" This is a present middle imperative. --You do know what a Present Imperative is-right?

This construction focuses on the continuing state of the subject;--Who is the subject?

God is faithful and truthful , humans are unfaithful and liars! This is an allusion to Ps. 116:11 and is similar to what Job had to learn in Rom. 32:2; 40:8.
Notice the universal element of sinfulness in this chapter, represented by Paul's use of pas (all, every) in Rom. 3:4,9,12,19,20,23,24,--

A quotation from Pss. 14:1–3; 53:1–3, using the Greek translation of the Old Testament known
as the Septuagint. The two psalms are largely identical except that in Ps. 14 the name “Jehovah” (LORD)
is used, perhaps with respect to the wicked in Israel, whereas in Ps. 53 “Elohim” (God) replaces it,
perhaps to speak of Israel’s pagan enemies. This double reference is fitting, as the apostle is showing
that Jew and Gentile are both under sin.

3:11 The mind is darkened (1:21–22), and the will is in bondage to sin (6:20).

3:12 Man’s inner depravity is shown in his practice.

3:13–18 Paul quotes from Pss. 5:9; 10:7; 140:3; Isa. 59:7–8; and Ps. 36:1 (in that order), describing
man’s deadly corruption in every area of life, including speech (tongues), actions (feet), and perspective
(eyes). fear of God. Man lacks the beginning of wisdom (Prov. 9:10), and from this failure to reverence
God’s majesty flow all the disorders of human society (1:21–32).

3:19 The law speaks to all, whether or not men have the Scriptures (2:14–15), and it condemns all. This
should stop every mouth now and will do so at the judgment.

3:20 There is no hope of earning acceptance with God by trying to keep God’s law. What the law does
do, when correctly understood, is expose our sin as in a mirror (by the law is the knowledge of sin).

Define "Church" for me
J.

Romas is addressed to the leaders of the churches in Rome, concerning gentiles and Jew who are not saved, and how they should be taught.

Romans 1

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2 the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life[a] was a descendant of David, 4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power[b] by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from[c] faith for his name’s sake. 6 And you also are among those Gentiles who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.
7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.


Most important part

Romans 1


God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


All have been offered grace as above.

Why "stop" there?

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

A vivid picture of the true nature of our deprived hears-outside Christ Jesus, without the indwelling Holy Spirit-don't you think?

Not 'ALL" repent and believe in Messiah-look around you.
J.

johann says nobody has ever given there heart