Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

We're discussing Rev 3:14-22

There's no mention that anyone is saved period.
I only mentioned saved because brightflame and cameron did in order to discuss this from my point of view.

This is why I believe Rev 3:20 is about Salvation.

Jesus is talking to the different churches. For the most part, He gives some praise and then correction. For the church at Laodicea, He offers no commendation, but begins immediately with correction. He hasn't spued them yet but will if they do not receive His admonition and change their practices. So you are correct. He is addressing the whole church. But those who have an ear will hear and respond. Those who do not will be spued out.
I've always assumed spued out meant cast away. It could mean some sort of of chastisement. That's not what I believe it means so this and I believe those truly saved cannot lose their salvation, so I believe anyone who does get spued out would be an unbeliever.

You don't get it

Those whom have a ear to hear are the saved regenerated, the sheep that hears the voice of their Shepherd

I believe anyone truly saved also cannot lose their salvation.
I am going by what those verses in Laodecia are saying. It seems we're basically mostly in agreement. I just hate to read a verse that mentions nothing specific and claim it means something specific. We already have that in this thread with someone getting caught throwing out meanings that are not Biblical and then whining they're being attacked doing God's purpose when they're basically lying like Satan.

You've been caught so your opinion no longer has merit.

I am a firm believer in Once Saved Always Saved and why I know how Rev 3:14-22 is written out that those who can be vomited/spewed out are not saved. Which makes Rev 3:20 vital to them for Salvation.

I never said differently.

It was a good admonition. I appreciate it.

Thank You!

I decided to look at this from your viewpoint and discovered some interesting facts.

For one, the Reformed claim it's the physical/spiritual door to the church at Laodecia and a call to change the churches views.

Secondly, the usage of door in Rev 3:20 is also used in multiple other verses to mean the heart.


The Greek Language in scripture closest to Rev 3:20 is
John 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

It clearly means the heart.

I know, it seems we may agree on this

That is a very good thought! However, Christ said - It is finished. Could you go down that path?

The key here is what the it is and what is engendered in it being accomplished.
It seems to be the payment for sin.
This engenders a whole series of things. How much do you want to consider?

Regarding the OP...

It is clear in Scripture that Jesus died for everyone. All sin has been paid for by His sacrifice.

If you disagree, read your Bible.

I truly believe the Reformed basically did subtraction, a form of mathematics to uphold their idealism. God died but it is true only the saved will benefit. And that is the subtraction. But the Reformed went further and made every verse to match this mathematical end result. And in doing so has tarnished the "true Image of God's Love."

Jesus said "whoever believes, He died for the whole world."
Paul write "God died for All Men + especially those who believe."

The world is starving because they are without God. And God made a way for them even if they end up rejecting Him. But the fact that God died for them is God's Testimony of His true Love. Love is so important that Paul made a complete Chapter for it in Corinthians.

I actually think God will judge based upon do you believe His Love is for everyone, His entire creation that He made. Or only for a few. I believe Hell is full of those who have tarnished the Image of God's Love.

People can believe they're saved, but only God is the final Judge to determine that.

In the case of a particular people ("this people"... [i.e. not all humans, everywhere, at all times]), these verses have this to say:


Mat 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Act 28:27
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.








[likewise Isa6:10 speaking of "this people"--a particular people (at a particular time/time-frame)... not all humans, everywhere, of all times]

But that is to the Jews who already believe in Yahweh, not in Jesus.

Paul speaks about people who knows God is real by looking at God's creation.

I believe 2 different people is spoken about here that reject God.

^ @FollowerofShiloh also ,

I'm inclined to agree with those who say that the phrase (in 1:18) saying, "who HOLD THE TRUTH in unrighteousness" was speaking specifically of "[OT] Israel"... who were given special revelation (that the rest of the world/humans were not given).






Later in Romans 11, (speaking of the same "people") the question is posed, "Hath God cast away His people? God forbid" (and then states, of them) "God hath not cast away His people which He FOREKNEW..." (i.e. [Israel] in OT times)... and then further down, in v.7 (speaking of the then present time), "Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded/hardened" and then further down, in v.25 says this (of them), "that blindness/a hardening in part is happened to Israel UNTIL..." (the "until," speaking of a future point in time)

^ Here's a quote by William Kelly on the matter of verse 18 (Rom1:18), with which I fairly agree:



[quoting Wm Kelly]

"Again, this verse [v.18] is not, as some suppose, limited as a preface to the proof of Gentile depravity; it is rather the thesis in brief, which is opened out in the rest of Romans 1, 2, 3, down to verse 21, which resumes the treatment of God's righteousness, and begins the details of that which we had in Romans 1:17. I understand, therefore, that verse 18 gives first the general description of human ungodliness in every phase, and then the unrighteousness which was at that time most conspicuous in the Jews who combined with practical injustice a tenacious hold or possession of the truth: the former demonstrated to the end of Romans 1; the latter (after the transition of Romans 2:1-16.) pursued from Romans 2:17 to Romans 3:20. Had this two-fold aspect been apprehended in the verse before us, the rendering of the Authorized Version would not have been deserted for "restraining the truth by unrighteousness," which is a sense framed to meet the condition of the heathen who were supposed here to be alone in the apostle's view. The same misconception wrought mischief in lowering the character both of the revelation of God's wrath from heaven, and of the truth in order to meet paganism. Admit the universal scope of the moral description with a specific reference to those who held the truth in unrighteousness, and the sense which results is as easy as it is all-important, the fitting introduction to the entire episode that follows till the apostle takes up his proper theme, God's righteousness revealed in the gospel.

"The apostle next proceeds to set forth the proofs of the guilt of men, because of which the wrath of God awaits them. And first he takes up impiety, or the evil which characterized the vast majority of the world, as later on he addresses himself to that subtler iniquity which consisted in holding the truth along with practical unrighteousness, then found among Jews as now in Christendom. This division of the subject, it will be seen, is not only closer to the language of the context but it preserves us from the mistake of such as attribute a knowledge of "the truth" to the heathen as such. In fact verse 19 begins with the earlier of the two classes of evil we have seen distinguished in verse 18, and the subject is pursued to the end of the chapter. It is distinctively the Gentile portion, and presents the moral ground which necessitated and justified the unsparing judgment of God."

--William Kelly - Romans 1 William Kelly Major Works Commentary (biblehub.com)


[end quoting; bold and underline mine]

Curious to know what does this assertation by William Kelly mean to you, in your own words?