Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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FollowerofShiloh

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In 1 Kings 17: 21-22 it was the soul of a dead boy that returned to the body; in Luke 8 :33 it was the spirit of a dead girl that returned
Here's where heart and soul crossover

Job 7:15 says, So that my soul chooses strangling, and death rather than my life.

Paul says the heart chooses 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart
 

Cameron143

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It's really weird. I am not sure how Theologians have concluded this.

The Hebrew words nephesh (soul) and ruach (spirit) are interchangeable terms; so also are the corresponding. Greek words - psyche (soul) and pneuma (spirit). These are · also synonymous with the words for heart and mind.
What theologians? It's right in the text.
Here's another:
Romans 6:17...yet have obeyed...the will...from the heart...the heart...that form of doctrine...the mind...
It's how God does things...the whole person.
 

Magenta

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The Bible distinguishes between the mind, heart, and will, particularly in salvation. Acts 2:37...when they heard this...mind,
they were pricked in their hearts...heart...and said...what shall we do...the will. God engages with the whole man in salvation.
Oy. Yes, we have discussed this before. Heart also means innermost being, which would include all aspects.

It's really weird. I am not sure how Theologians have concluded this.

The Hebrew words nephesh (soul) and ruach (spirit) are interchangeable terms; so also are the corresponding.
Greek words - psyche (soul) and pneuma (spirit). These are · also synonymous with the words for heart and mind.
I agree, and Jesus confirmed this in Mark 7:21: "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts."

Cameron and I discussed this somewhat at length in a thread of his here (<= link). :)
 

brightfame52

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You do realize the BIBLE SAYS only way to get FAITH is by hearing the Gospel of Christ?

So no matter what you say, if it does not Go by what the BIBLE says about getting Faith, you are WRONG!
You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated.

Jesus specifically said one must be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Vs 43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
 

jamessb

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Most people get saved through the foolishness of preaching. But biblical hearing isn't simply hearing audibly. It also includes the idea of understanding. Jesus explains this in Matthew 13:10-17 when He quotes from Isaiah 6. What a number of people are trying to explain is that spiritual hearing is necessary to faith.
Hear is hearing. Biblical hearing? Spiritual hearing? Are you joking? Is "spiritual hearing" an unknown gift of the Spirit?

Ephesians 2:8-9, " For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."
 

Cameron143

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Hear is hearing. Biblical hearing? Spiritual hearing? Are you joking? Is "spiritual hearing" an unknown gift of the Spirit?

Ephesians 2:8-9, " For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."
Did you read Matthew 13:10-17?
Jesus says when hearing and seeing are given, conversion is the result.
 

brightfame52

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Hear is hearing. Biblical hearing? Spiritual hearing? Are you joking? Is "spiritual hearing" an unknown gift of the Spirit?

Ephesians 2:8-9, " For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."
One needs to be regenerated, made alive before they can hear unto Faith. In case you not aware, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22. So explain how one without the Spirit can hear spiritually and believe ?
 

HeIsHere

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Hear is hearing. Biblical hearing? Spiritual hearing? Are you joking? Is "spiritual hearing" an unknown gift of the Spirit?

Ephesians 2:8-9, " For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."
You will notice the same playbook employed, same scriptures pulled out in support of the Calvinist position.
Context and Calvinism never go together.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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I agree, and Jesus confirmed this in Mark 7:21: "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts."

Cameron and I discussed this somewhat at length in a thread of his here (<= link). :)
So many verses say the heart and soul do the same thing. The Hebrew is very specific about it. I believe they are definitely connected together and why they can be used the same. Glad to see God gave you the same insight.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated.

Jesus specifically said one must be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Vs 43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
You can say what you want but if you do not go by what the Bible says you are just full of baloney. You have to hear the Gospel first before the Holy Spirit can work to impart Faith.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Did you read Matthew 13:10-17?
Jesus says when hearing and seeing are given, conversion is the result.
That's only for the Disciples. They also were given the ability to go and heal before anyone else and do the same thing Jesus did. The Disciples were specifically chosen people to do the works of Jesus. You don't even take anything into context. Had you been there you would not have understood either. It was only for the Disciples to know because they were the Ones being trained.
 

Cameron143

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so all soils have eyes of the heart, should it not be God that opens the eyes of the heart.

Surely the eyes of the heart can't open themselves.

It should be then the seed is not dependent on the soil.
I agree that it is God who gives understanding and perception. I'm just not married to any particular wording.
 

Cameron143

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That's only for the Disciples. They also were given the ability to go and heal before anyone else and do the same thing Jesus did. The Disciples were specifically chosen people to do the works of Jesus. You don't even take anything into context. Had you been there you would not have understood either. It was only for the Disciples to know because they were the Ones being trained.
I don't believe it is only for the disciples. Who is the faith that comes by hearing for in Romans 10:17?
 

FollowerofShiloh

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One needs to be regenerated, made alive before they can hear unto Faith. In case you not aware, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22. So explain how one without the Spirit can hear spiritually and believe ?
You need to HEAR so the Holy Spirit can impart Faith to believe. If you never believe there's no Repentance and Regeneration.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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I don't believe it is only for the disciples. Who is the faith that comes by hearing for in Romans 10:17?
No one but Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit at that time. So the Disciples were given special permissions from God. They healed the same miracles without the being full of the Spirit. You could never do that without being filled with the Holy Spirit and they did because they were the CHOSEN Ones to spread the Gospel.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jesus even says in Matthew 13 “You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not.

This is a one time special thing and had any of us been there we would have been the "others are not permitted."

The fact this verse is wrongly used in Reformed doctrine just shows they don't have a clue about the Bible and what Jesus said in that verse.
 

Cameron143

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No one but Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit at that time. So the Disciples were given special permissions from God. They healed the same miracles without the being full of the Spirit. You could never do that without being filled with the Holy Spirit and they did because they were the CHOSEN Ones to spread the Gospel.
How did people in the OT get saved?
 

Johann

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for the Unjust/Nonelect/Unsaved whose names are not written in The Book of Life?

Revelation 21:27
There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb
The theology of John Calvin contends that before the foundation of the world, God elected certain ones (both angels and men) to be saved, and others to be lost.

There is no biblical basis for this. In the opening remarks of his first letter to the brethren at Thessalonica, Paul makes an interesting comment which helps put this topic into proper focus.

“Paul, and Silvanus, and Timothy, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace. We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; remembering without ceasing your work of faith and labor of love and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, before our God and Father; knowing, brethren beloved of God, your election, how that our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance; even as ye know what manner of men we showed ourselves toward you for your sake” (1 Thes. 1:1-5).

In verse four, the apostle reminds them of their “election.” The original term merely denotes one who has been selected. The nature of the selection must be determined by additional information.

In this instance, the context clarifies the matter. The election was effected through the proclamation of the gospel and these folks’ acceptance of the same.

Underline “election” (v. 4), and “gospel” (v. 5), and connect the two words with a line. Marginally note: Election is through acceptance of the gospel.

This is further corroborated by a statement in Paul’s second letter to these same Christians: “... he [God] called you through the gospel ...” (2 Thes. 2:14).

The Bible knows nothing of an arbitrary divine election separate from human responsibility.