Predestination is misunderstood...

No. On the basis of love. But unless the person I gave it to was someone I owed, it would be unmerited.

So if your giving an unmerited favor on the bases of love, how is that favor unmerited.

The TULIP sniffers have everyone condemned until God hits a remote control button to get certain robots to walk in his direction.
That's what it amounts to....

I just told you. Unless I am under some obligation or debt to the individual, whatever I do for them they have no claim to. It is done solely at my discretion.
Unmerited simply means undeserved. So in our example, I am under no obligation to give you my savings. If I do so, you have done nothing to earn it. I am merely exercising grace towards you.

I think you need God to teach you a big lesson in how to stop being condescending.
For you use that tact too often here.

And, by the way. You had two typos in your comment.
By sixth grade level of comprehension that should no longer be.

Just drop the "superiority complex" approach, please.

Actually, there were three typos.

Maybe you are projecting a little.

What does "use that tact" mean? Did you mean "Take that tack"?

Why does everyone agree that grace means unmerited favor? That is not quite right...
For God wants us to transform by grace into what will merit his favor! Blessings.


Grace is God's enabling power. Power by means of the Spirit to transforms a man into becoming what God approves of!



God sees the redeemed as a highly valuable commodity in his economy!
For we have been bought at a price!!! 1 Corinthians 6:20

God wants to invest His Grace in us to turn us into gold, silver, and precious stones!

We only do not merit favor when we are proud. When we refuse grace!
As long as we are accepting grace? We will MERIT more grace!

For it says....



Grace is God's power that God gives us, so that we can become transformed into what does merit His favor!!!!!!

Its without grace we do not merit His favor! For grace to be called unmerited favor? All of us would have to be always proud!

Just a thought... grace and peace

There you go again!

I meant it short of a tactic....

But... After thinking about it? You're right!

For to define tact...

'Tact' is the ability to avoid upsetting or offending people by being careful not to say or do things that would hurt their feelings.

In contrast?

You take the tack...

Tack... something you sit on when another puts it on your seat intending to be a pain in the ___.

Yup..

Being condescending is a tack you take.

grace and peace ..........

"IF" we are born to parents who follow such doctrine and then grow up in that system it's no different than being born to parents and growing up with a doctrine that opposes "TULIP." I grew up with a family that rejected the Law, even though I was made to learn it in a synagogue in order to know it. But I was made to do that to learn how those laws reflected upon the person of Jesus Christ. I also was raised in a home where the doctrine opposed "TULIP." When I was around the age of 27 I attended several Reformed Churches and began to learn all I could about "TULIP" because I wanted to know it, understand it, and compare it to the things I had already learned. Whenever I would see discrepancies, and there's many, I would research to make sure even my own beliefs were not being skewed by the prejudice of upbringing. And to be perfectly honest, there are "some facets" of the Reformed staple beliefs I do believe and have adapted as my own.

But I remember when I sat in the middle of teachers/preachers of my local community that represented all of the churches of that township and we were discussing John 3:16. And the bickering was almost heated about what this term "world" meant. Did it mean only the "saved," or "everyone?" I have no recollection as to why, other than the Holy Spirit, but as they were debating I started reading all of John chapter 3. And when I read verse 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him, the light switch was like being flipped to the "on" position. I spoke up and asked for the ability to speak without being uninterrupted. I was permitted. I said to everyone there, read verse 17 and focus upon the section that reads "MIGHT BE SAVED." Quietness filled the atmosphere. Everyone understood right then and there that John 3:16 was speaking about all human beings, not just the "Elect."

The Reformed doctrine has severely made God look impotent by creating this illusion He's this mad scientist creating people specifically for Hell. And since that day, God has led me to many places where doctrines and beliefs are challenged. And John 3:17 has stood the test of time in every instance.

No you haven't told me.

You've still not answered. So I'll ask again.


You made a reason as why you would not give your life savings away.

That's not what I'm asking.

You said you would give your life savings on the condition it was out of love.

So on the bases of you giving your life savings away on the condition it's out of your love, are you giving it away for nothing.

I think we can all be condescending at times. My "condescension" toward my friend was in response to their repeated condescension toward me. "Answer a fool. according to their folly...."

Then it wouldn't by definition be grace. But wouldn't you still be indebted for the original and ongoing grace?
I was just playing along. The idea you proffer has no merit to begin with. It only as we walk in the Spirit and Jesus lives in and through us that we are ever pleasing to God. This is grace upon grace.

I'm saying my giving it away without any obligation to do so is grace.

But you said you would not give your life savings away to just about anyone.

So then when you give them away what reason are you giving them away for.

No I didn't say I wouldn't give it away to anyone. I said if I gave it away and it wasn't due to an obligation, it is grace.
God owes no one anything. Every act on His part is necessarily of grace. This is my supposition.