Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

I just inserted the thought into the thread as it came to me while I was folding my whites and putting them away, and it only happened to be right after you did. Of course, who'd want to tell anyone that they cannot believe. Scripture directs us to believe so how can we say to anyone, "This might not be for you."?

Thanks for the reply. I thought that maybe I had offended you in some way.

To illustrate my question, let's say we choose a random person to tell "Jesus died for you," and the reality is that this person happens to actually be someone that God hates. It is argued that we should go ahead and speak this to everyone because we do not know whether they are of the elect or not, but this suggests that it is okay that we might lie, as long as we do not realize we are lying...
So, can you see why, then, that I would hesitate to adopt this approach?

You are like your Calvinistic comrades in that you keep falsely accusing me of things I have not done.
You pretend it is me who is stuck somewhere (between a rock and a hard place?) because you cannot
wrap your head around the very simple fact that I do not believe man's will is free. I have availed myself
of Scriptures that answer your question and posted them multiple times. Here, if you have eyes to see:


Jesus’ words in John 6:65

You are correct! We do not know what is in the heart of man.
Maybe we should therefore take a slightly different approach when talking to others.

In our conversation with them, we should a) try to determine are they Christian or not. If we feel that they are not believers, then we can b) begin to explain what God has done for us and how He has changed our life. We can also c) invite them to our church to hear His word proclaimed. The invite may need to be repeated many times. So rather than saying "He died for you", perhaps it is better to say "only He can save you, which is true".

I think that item “c” above may be the most important. For, how can you believe what you have not heard? But since we are unable to change them, we must rely on God and realize that only He can change the heart. This could result in the person being called, but He could also use this to harden them!

It must be tough to be a “minister of the word” and realize that many are called but few will come! However, when success does come, what joy must fill their heart watching the change take place.

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

- Jeremiah 13:23 (KJV)

My understanding goes like this: The leopard cannot change its spots, and the Ethiopian cannot change the color of his skin. God is teaching us that people who are conditioned to commit evil will not be able to do good. They cannot possibly change without the truth of God’s Word.

You're half way there. Scripture teaches that the children of God have been born of the Spirit and the Word! The Word alone is not sufficient! What can the dead possibly change? They need life imparted to them first (John 3:2-15; Jn. 6:65; 11:26: Col 2:13, etc.).

And if you want irrefutable proof of what I've just stated, all we have to do is look at the Old Covenant people of God -- Israel! They were the only ones on this planet whom God favored with his Word. They were given the Law. They were given the prophets of God. They were given the Wisdom Books. They had the temple sacrifices and the priesthood. They were recipients of God's covenants. They had all these EXTERNAL gifts given to them. They were the most privileged people on earth! Yet, how did that work out for them? Were not both Israel and Judah apostate nations, both conquered by pagan nations? Wasn't Israel again judged severely in 70 A.D. -- and in that process God destroyed the very religion he ordained, i.e. Old Covenant Judaism?

Now...Contrast the conditional Old Covenant promises with the unconditional New found in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36 which unilaterally promise INTERNAL, EFFECTUAL gifts. It's no wonder the writer of Hebrews said that the New Covenant is founded on better promises (Heb 8:6)!

As it is written:

1 Cor 10:11
11 These things happened to them [Israelites] as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
NIV

Did you catch that: "warnings"!? It's no wonder that Jesus is the contrasting antitype to Israel!

Exactly. The Gospel is filled with profound paradoxes. Another one is that while it is tough to see someone reject the offer, at the same time all pressure is off the Reformed evangelizer because he or she knows that ultimately it is God who gives the increase. All we have to do is faithfully proclaim the truth! God will sovereignly do the rest...or not.

And I never tell anyone that God died for them because that would be an unbiblical statement. There are far too many passages in the bible that tell us specifically for whom he died and that he died only for "many" -- not each and every person in the world. NRs pervert the term "many" to make it say "everyone". I could not do that in good conscience.

…but not everyone will come to Christ —beginning in the first age, even. Some followed Satan when he rebelled. Those who followed Christ were chosen and elected.

It all comes down to this: Do you believe or not. (John 3:16)

I believe in Jn 3:16-17.

What do you believe those two passages are teaching?

…but not everyone will come to Christ —beginning in the first age, even. Some followed Satan when he rebelled. Those who followed Christ were chosen and elected.

I believe what it says.

I quoted you in my 2387. You said nothing about the Holy Spirit, which is why I said, "You're half way there."

Exactly! All the elect will assuredly come to Christ (Jn 6:37), which are also the people for whom Christ prayed in John 17.

You are like your Calvinistic comrades in that you keep falsely accusing me of things I have not done.
You pretend it is me who is stuck somewhere (between a rock and a hard place?) because you cannot
wrap your head around the very simple fact that I do not believe man's will is free. I have availed myself
of Scriptures that answer your question and posted them multiple times. Here, if you have eyes to see:

Are not God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit One?

Magenta,
Good to see you posting in defense as to what you believe.
Continue to stick to what you believe and defend yourself. Do not let anyone shake your faith or your walk with God. You know in your heart what you believe concerning our creator, so don't let others play a word game to convince you otherwise.
I would also place myself into the reformed camp of understanding. However, I do not believe it is perfect! We all have much to learn. In other words, “we all see through a glass dimly”. The best that we can hope for, in our interaction with others and God, is to grow and strengthen our faith as well as the faith of those we interact with.