Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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I am not sure what you are trying to say. Of course believers are forgiven, and unbelievers are not.
That is Christianity 101. I have seen you arguing this way before and wonder what your point is.
You seem to be saying one thing but then contradict yourself.
Unbelievers Christ died for are forgiven and then given the Gift of believing/faith
 

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
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Texas
So you believe it's just of God to accept the payment for an individual's sins, and still require another payment from them?
It's not a matter of what an individual does. I'm asking about God.
Cameron, good to hear from you and you ask a great question!

Christ died for our sins. Please notice “sins”, plural. That means past, present, and yes future. He died once! Should He have to die again each time we continue to sin? I think not!
The price has been paid. Knowing this should not make us sin even more, but mourn the fact that we are such weak creatures, in constant need of His grace and sanctification.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Unbelievers Christ died for are forgiven and then given the Gift of believing/faith
That still leaves unbelievers condemned in their unbelief, which Cameron says is not the unforgivable sin.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Awesome scripture. It’s interesting because the Pharisees believed; they knew Jesus, and yet………
Yes...the Pharisees "believed" with a faith that was on the order of the demons and their father the devil (Jas 2:19; Jn 8:33-47).
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Correct, Christ didnt die for the goats, the tares, the children of the wicked one. Matt 13 38

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

He didnt lay down His Life for the tares !
Copy that, brother! (y) And just think: If it were not for God's grace, we'd still be tares or children of the wicked one!
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Easy, the world there is His Sheep, His Church, Gods Elect.
The Elect ARE SAVED!
So, are you now saying the Elect/World might be saved?

Because the world Jesus is speaking about in John 3:16-17 might be saved.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

So the world in verse 16/17 cannot be the Elect because they "ARE SAVED," they are not in the category of "MIGHT BE SAVED" like Jesus spoke about.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I am not sure what you are trying to say. Of course believers are forgiven, and unbelievers are not.
That is Christianity 101. I have seen you "arguing" this way before and wonder what your point is.
You seem to be saying one thing but then contradict yourself.
I'll try this way. Have you ever committed the sin of unbelief?
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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Yes...the Pharisees "believed" with a faith that was on the order of the demons and their father the devil (Jas 2:19; Jn 8:33-47).
Yep, and the devil certainly knew who Jesus was.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I'll try this way. Have you ever committed the sin of unbelief?
I think you know already that my position is that we were all once enemies of God, hostile in our minds toward Him. Scripture says as much. And you have heard swaths of my testimony. You know I was fairly heartily dead set against the God of the Bible. That He drew me with loving kindness. But people who die in unbelief are not forgiven. And once we believe, all sins are cleansed from our record.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,091
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Jesus' words in Matthew 17:20-21
Faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelief .:)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Copy that, brother! (y) And just think: If it were not for God's grace, we'd still be tares or children of the wicked one!
Them for whom Christ died were never those things. Do you believe the Sheep use to be goats ?
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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The unbelievers Christ didnt die for, sure
This is WHO Jesus died for

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

So tell me, are the ELECT SAVED or are they MIGHT BE SAVED?

They are SAVED!

So verse 17 is EVERYONE, Jesus died for EVERYONE!
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
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Them for whom Christ died were never those things. Do you believe the Sheep use to be goats ?
This is WHO Jesus died for

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

So tell me, are the ELECT SAVED or are they MIGHT BE SAVED?

They are SAVED!

So verse 17 is EVERYONE, Jesus died for EVERYONE!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,431
582
113
The Elect ARE SAVED!
So, are you now saying the Elect/World might be saved?

Because the world Jesus is speaking about in John 3:16-17 might be saved.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

So the world in verse 16/17 cannot be the Elect because they "ARE SAVED," they are not in the category of "MIGHT BE SAVED" like Jesus spoke about.
They were Loved and elect before they were saved, thats why Jesus saved them, because they were Gods own elect.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I think you know already that my position is that we were all once enemies of God, hostile in our minds toward Him. Scripture says as much. And you have heard swaths of my testimony. You know I was fairly heartily dead set against the God of the Bible. That He drew me with loving kindness. But people who die in unbelief are not forgiven. And once we believe, all sins are cleansed from our record.
True enough. But unbelief is just one of many sins that cause people to go to hell. We were dead in our trespasses and sin. Likewise, unbelief is only one of many sins that we are forgiven of.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,431
582
113
This is WHO Jesus died for

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

So tell me, are the ELECT SAVED or are they MIGHT BE SAVED?

They are SAVED!

So verse 17 is EVERYONE, Jesus died for EVERYONE!
Christ died only for them He saved and they believed as a result of it