Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,431
582
113
This is WHO Jesus died for

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

So tell me, are the ELECT SAVED or are they MIGHT BE SAVED?

They are SAVED!

So verse 17 is EVERYONE, Jesus died for EVERYONE!
Jn 3:17 and 16 are only the elect
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
406
176
43
Texas
That still leaves unbelievers condemned in their unbelief, which Cameron says is not the unforgivable sin.
If you are a child of God, then He will not leave you in a state of unbelief, but will draw you to Himself! However, He will certainly leave those who are not His in unbelief.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,091
30,207
113
If you are a child of God, then He will not leave you in a state of unbelief, but will draw you to Himself!
However, He will certainly leave those who are not His in unbelief.
Good morning, BillyBob! :) It is still morning here LOL.:coffee::coffee::coffee:

Only believers have the right to be called children of God.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Again sure. But that isn't blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
AMEN!

Unbelief is the Act of "Not believing" Jesus is who He claims to be.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying the Spirit of God comes from Satan, so they're making the Holy Spirit into a DEMON.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
AMEN!

Unbelief is the Act of "Not believing" Jesus is who He claims to be.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying the Spirit of God comes from Satan, so they're making the Holy Spirit into a DEMON.
Jesus said He does miracles by the Holy Spirit, Pharisee's said, No, you do them by demons.

So they called the Holy Spirit a DEMON.

MARK
22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.


MATTHEW
22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?”
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.”

Jesus said:
28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.


So they were calling the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit the prince of Demons.

31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,091
30,207
113
Being somewhat reformed, I believe that there are many who are His - but have not yet turned to Him.
But I also see what you are saying:)
Someone was saying a day or so ago (I have been off work sick for more than a week and am generally losing track of the days in my dotage LOL) that being reformed does not necessarily mean Calvinist. Another person who seems to be a dyed-in-the-wool Calvinist agreed with me that God does not make it impossible for any to believe, and yet, according to Calvinism, God has chosen ahead of time who will and who will not believe, which does make it impossible for those not chosen, to accept the offer of salvation, which is not, was not, and cannot be for them. And yet they will be punished for not believing. I have heard Calvinists say that God ordains everything, as if He were making everything happen, which also seems to me like they are ascribing evil to God, as if God causes men to act as they do, as if we are all puppets instead of men being responsible for the choices they make. Perhaps you have also seen me say that I do not believe man's will is free, which some take to mean we are incapable of making choices (which is obviously not what I mean). I say all that wondering where on the spectrum of this label do you rate yourself, if at all? Does saying you are somewhat reformed mean you are a Calvinist in some respects but not all? I am simply curious... I find it interesting also that so many outright reject the notion of total depravity even if they call themselves an Arminian, which also espouses the depravity of man. I do not consider myself either Calvinist or Arminian. :):):)
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
This is WHO Jesus died for

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

So tell me, are the ELECT SAVED or are they MIGHT BE SAVED?

They are SAVED!

So verse 17 is EVERYONE, Jesus died for EVERYONE!
Yes. That’s the magnitude of God’s love. “Might be saved“—those who never came to Him before might (this time) heed His only begotten Son’s call. What a wonderful Father we have!
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,972
394
83
The Elect ARE SAVED!
So, are you now saying the Elect/World might be saved?

Because the world Jesus is speaking about in John 3:16-17 might be saved.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

So the world in verse 16/17 cannot be the Elect because they "ARE SAVED," they are not in the category of "MIGHT BE SAVED" like Jesus spoke about.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
If you are a child of God, then He will not leave you in a state of unbelief, but will draw you to Himself! However, He will certainly leave those who are not His in unbelief.
I believe Jesus calls once more even those who rejected Him before the foundation of the world—but they won’t come. Those who followed Jesus before the foundation of the world will certainly follow Him again. Why? …because they’re Elect! Jesus died, in my opinion, for everyone.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,091
30,207
113
Yes. That’s the magnitude of God’s love. “Might be saved“—those who never came to Him before
might (this time) heed His only begotten Son’s call. What a wonderful Father we have!

John 12:31-32
:)
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
@Rufus Don’t you think that Jesus could possibly be calling both those who were chosen before the foundation of the world and those who rejected Him before the foundation of the world?
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,972
394
83
That's why they cannot be the "Might be Saved," because might be saved ARE NOT SAVED!
You see why it's so naive and dangerous to use one translation to formulate doctrine? Or why it's dangerous to avoid determining word usage; Firstly, even if we go with the KJV, the term "might" (or even "may") is archaic [Old English] for have the ability. In fact, this is the very first definition in my M-W dictionary. But you're using the term in the sense of the third definition which is used to indicate possibility or probability .

Secondly, the Gr. term "sozo" (Strong's 4982) means:
sozo


NT:4982 sozo (sode'-zo); from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):

KJV - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003)


Of course, some of the the more modern translations (Formal and Dynamic Equiv. alike!) render v.17 on the order of the NIV:

John 3:17
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
NIV

The ASV renders the last phrase "should be saved".

The AMP renders this phrase "that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.

The TLB renders the phrase "but to save it".

The NASB, renders this phrase "that the world should be saved".

The TEV renders this phrase "but to be its savior", etc., etc.

Moreover, your interpretation would also contradict numerous scriptures that teach that God and his Christ are ACTUALLY saviors -- not merely potential or possible saviors. There are no scriptures that teaches that God is only a possible or potential savior.

It also contradicts a large number of scriptures that teach the doctrine of omnipotence. This doctrine teaches that nothing is impossible with God, nothing is too hard for him -- that nothing and no one can frustrate his eternal decrees. And this teaching comports very well with the definition of the Gr. term above, as well as many renderings that teach that essentially teach that Christ came into the world to [actually] save it. Did not Jesus teach that all the Father gives to him WILL [indeed] come to him (Jn 6:37)!?

Finally, your interpretation contradicts the two centeral OT passages that reveal God's New Covenant promises (Jer 31 and Ezek 36). Those promies are unconditional and unilateral in nature! God declares in those promises exactly what he will do for his people -- not what he "might" (or perhaps) do as you erroneosly interpet this term.