Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

So people heard and received faith and then disobeyed?

So people heard and received faith and then disobeyed?

Really? Can you show me the post where I ever mentioned freewill?

Seems God did exactly that. AND hardened their hearts too.

7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect* obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,

eyes that would not see

and ears that would not hear,

down to this very day.”

9 And David says,

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,

a stumbling block and a retribution for them;

10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,

and bend their backs forever.”

Gentiles Grafted In

11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass usalvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion2 mean!


* The elect meaning those who have come to faith in Christ. Paul refers to both Jews and Gentiles...ALL who accept Christ as all are free to come to Christ and believe

well this could go on all night with one person trying to change what is said and the other defending what he said

I don't see the point when someone tries to change what is said as some kind of defence because the verse does not line up with Calvinistic beliefs

You don't have to mention Free Will because your questions point towards your disbelief of it how I am claiming it can be used.

well this could go on all night with one person trying to change what is said and the other defending what he said

I don't see the point when someone tries to change what is said as some kind of defence because the verse does not line up with Calvinistic beliefs

I'm asking questions to understand why you believe as you do. You assume the rest.

If faith comes by hearing, and someone has heard, doesn't this imply they have faith? And if someone has faith, would their response be stopping their ears? These sound like reasonable questions to me.

As a Jew brought up in Synagogue to learn Torah, Scriptures, and Talmud, I know the meaning of Free Will that is mentioned 17 times. I know God gives Free Will in the matters when choosing to accept/reject God.

22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--

If faith comes by hearing, and someone has heard, doesn't this imply they have faith? And if someone has faith, would their response be stopping their ears? These sound like reasonable questions to me.

As a Jew brought up in Synagogue to learn Torah, Scriptures, and Talmud, I know the meaning of Free Will that is mentioned 17 times. I know God gives Free Will in the matters when choosing to accept/reject God.

22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--

The Bible gives answers and I have provided those verses to you, so NO, you reject the Word of God.

all people are born with the truth in them and are able to know right and wrong,

Is this any different to faith, because faith also knows right and wrong

I agree people know right and wrong because God has placed eternity in their hearts. But the Bible says we come forth speaking lies so not so sure about truth.

a child can know to tell the truth as soon as they learn to speak.

Sure. And they can lie. Ask them who ate the last cookie and see what they say with crumbs all over their face.

yes they lie because they know the truth.

You can't lie without knowing the truth can you