Predestination is misunderstood...

yes, one takeaway from the genealogies in Gen 5. ...and he died, and he died, and he died.

This is after we were under the law. I'm referring to when there was no law.

Agreed. Paul says that Adam's sin is the cause of everyone's mortality. However he does not say "Adam was our representative in the Adamic covenant, and his sin is our sin, his guilt legally is our guilt." Your systematic is telling you that.

"death passed upon all men...why?...for that all have sinned."

The phrase you have translated as "for that all have sinned" is "eph' hOs (dative singular neuter) pantes hEmarton." i.e. upon which all sinned.

This sets the death of all as the basis upon which all [who sinned] sinned. Upon the death (or decreed mortality) of all, all sinned. Our limited life span pushes us towards sin, taking selfish short-cuts to get good things and avoid bad things while we still have some opportunity to enjoy life. and before the curtain falls on us. As Paul; says elsewhere, we were kept in bondage by the fear of death.

so am I, you say there was no law, but he gave one man one law before they fell.

Where does it say our sin is the result of the fact of our mortality?
Keep reading Romans 5. As in Adam all die...we all have part in Adam's death. That alone makes us part of the covenant. And for all have sinned...does evidence that Adam was our representative and we are under the curse of the law. Otherwise, we don't need Christ as the second Adam. We can attain our own righteousness through the law.

The verses you shared were referring to the law of Moses

in one regard yes, but in another regard no.

The verse I showed speaks how the lord has everyman locked up in captivity.

What captivity was Adam and eve locked up in after the fall.

Because just before the fall they where given a law.

The power of sin is the law. Jesus fulfilled the law and set us free.

does this address my question.

What captivity where Adam and ever locked up in.

And explain to me how God's holy law is sin

Sin bound Adam.
I never said God's law is Sin. I said the power of sin comes from the law...1 Corinthians 15:56. Romans 7 speaks to this issue. The knowledge of sin works in us the motions of sin. Before we are aware of sin, we never commit that sin. But as soon as we learn of a sin, our flesh desires to do it. Paul uses the example of coveting in his own life.

The power of sin gives birth to death. There is a difference to what your suggesting.

Never mind tho, since all my posts have gone of in a different direction, I've just started two more threads your welcome to take part in 😊

Does it actually say the law is a curse.

Is makes reference the law was given before man died.

The curse of the law is referenced as death not the law

As in the two laws God gave Adam and eve before the fall.

Was man under a curse when theese two laws where given

1 don't eat from the tree

2 man shall not live alone.

You have to say the curse of the law is death.

Meaning death curses the law

Galatians 3:10...For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse...

This might help.
I pray it does like it helped me to understand what we are dealing with.

Interesting point I learned from my pastor...


The English translation leaves us wondering. The Greek does not.

The Greek has a definite meaning.
It is saying that when Adam sinned? We all sinned in that one point in time.

Adam sealed our fate when he sinned..
His fallen nature was passed down to the woman by means of his sperm.
For? In Adam all die.


What about the woman's ovum? The ovum does not transfer the fallen nature.
That is why Jesus had to have no human father.

That is why Genesis 3:15 is specific in its wording that the Messiah would come by means of the "seed of the man."
Not the man's seed.

Jesus could have no human father for that reason. The man's sperm would pass down the sin nature.


grace and peace ............

Of course it does sound that way 'to you.'
But, you chose it.
That means it reflects something about you.

That is the same kind of argument a sodomite will use when he sees no wrong in what he does...
They see no wrong when evil is on their plate.

KNOCK KNOCK...



After hearing a knock.. No one would open their door if that's the face they saw through the peephole.

Its really you who have a problem. And, its being exposed here in this forum.
Not to mention the condemning tone of some of your posts....

Its a bad combination.
Its dark and foreboding.
Get rid of it if you want a bridge of God's Spirit to prevail.

God exposes our weaknesses, so His grace can be perfected in us. (2 Corinthians 12:9)


grace and peace ...................

does this answer the question, Is the law death or is it death curses the law.

I mean there are requirements when your saved surely, would that law be a curse to

Romans 5:12 Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, on the basis of which (eph' hOi) all sinned."

Heb. 2:14-15 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh nd blood, He also likewise took part in the same, that through death he might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

I have no idea what you are asking me.

snap 😂

Did anyone curse the law before Adam and eve died @Cameron143

Was it life that cursed the law or death

Does it actually say the law is a curse or death

Is makes reference the law was given before man died.

The curse of the law is referenced as death not the law

As in the two laws God gave Adam and eve before the fall.

Was man under a curse when theese two laws where given

1 don't eat from the tree

2 man shall not live alone.

You have to say the curse of the law is death.

Meaning death curses the law