The Security Of The Believer

Give one biblical quote that clearly states that as a biblical truth, and cannot be interpreted otherwise.

many are invited and only some choose to attend. Others have more important ideas. But if we just say “ we Lu some were invited “ it removes our own culpability

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. ( not the kings fault he invited them they chose )

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( not his fault he’s trying to be nite then to a celebration and they are rejecting it violently now )

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. ( that’s how he really is and why Jerusalem was destroyed )

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-9‬ ‭KJV‬

it’s always going to be the same God prepared eternal life for mankind and freely offers it . The condition is to believe what he’s saying and choose life

at he entire idea that God causes some to be evil and never repent and then sends them to hell based on his own doing is just really distorted view of God who is just to all

a what he isn’t is a puppet master or dictator forcing us either way he just sets life and death before us and tells us how to live

hearing and believing him is the way it’s an invite to the kingdom of God the gospel is an invite to life everlasting and it’s sent to us all

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s just true information he’s giving man concerning life and death believers of him will all be saved those who reject his words aren’t accepting faith

Rather show one biblical quote that shows predestination and election applies to salvation per se.

For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the first born among many brethren
, called ... justified ... glorified

even as He chose [elected] us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. He destined us in love to be His sons through Jesus Christ according to the purposes of His will to the praise of His glorious grace which He hath freely bestowed upon us in the Beloved.

This is who we are and what we are. Predestined to be like Jesus and chosen to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace.

You have to trace this doctrine back to it's source which is Abraham. Not counting Christ, Abraham is the first elect one through whom all the families of the earth were to bless themselves ... it passed on through him to Isaac to Jacob [Israel] and his sons.

But they were not the only ones who were saved. They were the instruments through whom salvation came. Lot was not the predestined and chosen one but he was saved. Many were made righteous through their dealings with Abraham and subsequently through the nation of of Israel.

We are predestined and chosen to be the instrument of salvation to the world. A city set upon a hill, not to exclude everyone but as a beacon of hope and succour to the lost, the hungry, those seeking refuge.

That's what Predestination and Election is for.

Do you see how wrong the church [not just Calvin] has got this doctrine?

Arminius also made the mistake Calvin made. He also saw that if we were predestined and elected to salvation then pure logic dictates that God must have bypassed everyone else. So he angrily in effect jettisons the doctrine altogether. This was not wise.

His doctrines concerning human freewill effectually annuls predestination and election, makes it of none effect.

What both should have done was cried to the Lord for a better understanding.

Give one biblical quote that clearly states that as a biblical truth, and cannot be interpreted otherwise.

I love you Pilgrim, do you know that ...

But when I read your posts I know I shall never win an argument with you.

Evmur said:
c'mon God's wisdom is exhaustive. He doesn't leave anything to chance.

The fudamental mistake of Calvin and others before and after him is in applying predestination and election to salvation.

Election is unto the church ... it excludes nobody from being saved.



I'm still waiting

lol yes us old mules are sometimes difficult to work with but also good a pulling a plow in some ways

But can I ask are we arguing that you’re trying to win ? Or are we just stating our thoughts on the same subject and they don’t agree as of yet ?

should we really be trying to win arguments I suppose is my thought , that isn’t my intent to argue with you but if I disagree on a matter I’ll just tell you what I think . I don’t necessarily think I’m right usually unless it’s just obvious stuff we all agree on for instance “ Jesus died for our sins and rose the third day “

i know I’m right about that . Often times though my friend I’m just discussing what I think and usually the scriptures why I think it the best I can in my very unprofessional and flawed way . But it’s never meant to argue and win any competition just like to discuss the Bible and hear thoughts of others .

If I disagree with some things and do t see anything to learn on it …. I still can learn from other things even if the same person is saying it

only hear for this purpose to speak freely and listen to other speaking freely about thier own thoughts

I don’t really know what to tell ya brother but I love you too and don’t recall ever winning any arguments against you either hahaha

Can’t remember really winning any argument with any person here to be honest had lots of mutually productive discussions though some of those with you

I'm serious ... folks are saying salvation is the result of God's predetermination and election and therefore all others He must have pre=planned to damn.

This is a presumption on Calvin's part [and incidentally what Arminius believed pre-destiny must mean] I think it is outrageous and ghastly and almost all Christians in their guts feel it can't be so.

There IS no scripture for it.

Now I totally believe in predestination and election to me they are priceless doctrines, precious beyond words.

Let me tell you the story of it.

Calvin used to give lectures to his students after which they were invited to ask the great man questions and one student posed the question "if God has predestined some to be saved, must He not also have predestined those others to be damned?"

History records that the question threw Calvin and he hesitated a very long time before he very reluctantly had to agree that logically this must be so.

It's an assumption, there is no scripture

Arminius must have thought so too for it made him so angry that he threw out the whole kaboodle, the precious and the vile. His doctrine of human freewill which is thousands of times worse practically cancels out predestination and election.

The answer is as the scriptures themselves say we are predestined and elected unto the blessing, to be the people of God, the church.
It's not about salvation.

I'm serious ... folks are saying salvation is the result of God's predetermination and election and therefore all others He must have pre=planned to damn.

This is a presumption on Calvin's part [and incidentally what Arminius believed pre-destiny must mean] I think it is outrageous and ghastly and almost all Christians in their guts feel it can't be so.

There IS no scripture for it.

Now I totally believe in predestination and election to me they are priceless doctrines, precious beyond words.

Let me tell you the story of it.

Calvin used to give lectures to his students after which they were invited to ask the great man questions and one student posed the question "if God has predestined some to be saved, must He not also have predestined those others to be damned?"

History records that the question threw Calvin and he hesitated a very long time before he very reluctantly had to agree that logically this must be so.

It's an assumption, there is no scripture

Arminius must have thought so too for it made him so angry that he threw out the whole kaboodle, the precious and the vile. His doctrine of human freewill which is thousands of times worse practically cancels out predestination and election.

The answer is as the scriptures themselves say we are predestined and elected unto the blessing, to be the people of God, the church.
It's not about salvation.

What if God predestined a "few" every generation to be "saved" so they would preach/teach/present the Gospel to others?

Look at the Disciples and Paul for example. They were hand picked by Jesus to spread the Gospel to others who would "hear and believe."

That is absolutely the way I see it.

I doesn't believe the saved will be just a few straggly sheep on His right hand and BILLIONS of goats on His left.

People say ah but "few there be that find it ... "

I don't think Jesus answered Peter's question directly, sometimes He doesn't. "Lord will few be saved?"

I think He answered "that is not your business, your business is to enter by the narrow gate, if you will enter in at the narrow gate I can use you, I can send you to the broad path and get the multitudes and turn them onto the narrow path that leads to life."

When people say "few" I think of the scriptures that say "many."

... like 2 old buses travelling to the same destination [glory] ... along different routes

Indeed mines got some loose parts and rusty gadgets sometimes I break down so it may take awhile lol

I don't think ye'll run outa gas any time soon

For many years people have debated the Biblical doctrine of Security. Some have called it “once in grace, always in grace”, others “once saved, always saved”. However it is referred to, the doctrine of “The Security of the Believer” is the teaching that when a person accepts the Grace of God (i.e., by repentance and faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ), that person experiences a re-birth. The ‘old’ man dies (as far as the spirit is concerned) and is reborn as a new creation in Christ. The Holy Spirit seals this re-born spirit as a pledge or guarantee that the redemption that has begun in that person WILL come to fruition. This is SECURITY. God cannot lie. He does not lie. He will not lie. Ephesians 4:30 states, “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Now whether one translates the word "eis" concretely with emphasis on direction and motion, with reference to time and duration, or in the abstract as “with reference to”, the ‘sealing’ points to ‘the day of redemption’. This is when Jesus returns and believers receive their glorified bodies (full redemption). Of course, when we become like Jesus, glorified body and all, we will not have to worry about a ‘sin’ nature for all eternity. But what about between the ‘day’ one believes and the ‘day’ of redemption? If this soul should decide to “jump out” of the hand of God, rebel and forsake his “Christian” walk, then what happens to the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The idea behind this SEAL is an impress for privacy, secrecy, security, and authority. Kings sealed with a signet scrolls, letters, writings that were not to be read except at the appointed time and by the appointed individual. Daniel was told, “Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.” That means ‘forget it boys’, you’re not going to find out “till the time of the end.”

The point is simply this: The seal of the Holy Spirit (which protects the spirit of man) guarantees the safe and secure delivery of that soul to the day of redemption (of that soul). If, for ANY reason, that soul is not brought unto “the day of redemption”, then either the seal (Holy Spirit of God) has been broken (overpowered by a greater power -- which does not exist), or God simply lied. Neither is the case. Thus salvation and security are inseparable. One cannot have one without the other. If you are genuinely saved, then you are secure. And if you have not security, then you have not salvation.

If one is not ETERNALLY saved, then he is not saved at all.

I see a list of fruit in Galatians 5. Can you show me a list of bad fruit from scripture?

Cameron, it sounds like we see this point here sort of similar.
so, let's apply this to the Bigger Picture.

if you follow a Doctrine of Predestination. you walk around thinking God has already sifted humanity. why would you ever Obey Matthew 28:19-20?


the question is:
if you follow what the Doctrine claims
or
if you follow the Bible specifically

you are Following something here one way or another.
one way or another you are OBEYING something here.

don't we only Obey WHO we actually Serve?

For many years people have debated the Biblical doctrine of Security. Some have called it “once in grace, always in grace”, others “once saved, always saved”. However it is referred to, the doctrine of “The Security of the Believer” is the teaching that when a person accepts the Grace of God (i.e., by repentance and faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ), that person experiences a re-birth. The ‘old’ man dies (as far as the spirit is concerned) and is reborn as a new creation in Christ. The Holy Spirit seals this re-born spirit as a pledge or guarantee that the redemption that has begun in that person WILL come to fruition. This is SECURITY. God cannot lie. He does not lie. He will not lie. Ephesians 4:30 states, “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Now whether one translates the word "eis" concretely with emphasis on direction and motion, with reference to time and duration, or in the abstract as “with reference to”, the ‘sealing’ points to ‘the day of redemption’. This is when Jesus returns and believers receive their glorified bodies (full redemption). Of course, when we become like Jesus, glorified body and all, we will not have to worry about a ‘sin’ nature for all eternity. But what about between the ‘day’ one believes and the ‘day’ of redemption? If this soul should decide to “jump out” of the hand of God, rebel and forsake his “Christian” walk, then what happens to the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The idea behind this SEAL is an impress for privacy, secrecy, security, and authority. Kings sealed with a signet scrolls, letters, writings that were not to be read except at the appointed time and by the appointed individual. Daniel was told, “Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.” That means ‘forget it boys’, you’re not going to find out “till the time of the end.”

The point is simply this: The seal of the Holy Spirit (which protects the spirit of man) guarantees the safe and secure delivery of that soul to the day of redemption (of that soul). If, for ANY reason, that soul is not brought unto “the day of redemption”, then either the seal (Holy Spirit of God) has been broken (overpowered by a greater power -- which does not exist), or God simply lied. Neither is the case. Thus salvation and security are inseparable. One cannot have one without the other. If you are genuinely saved, then you are secure. And if you have not security, then you have not salvation.

If one is not ETERNALLY saved, then he is not saved at all.

This seems to conflating "obeying/following the Bible" with "obeying/serving the Lord". Do you not make any distinction between the two?