Predestination is misunderstood...

again that would be not allowing me to have anything worth giving to you.

If you can't receive knowledge on the back end of being shown kindness.

Then you may as well be saying I'm ok jack,

But thanks for your disappointment, I'll add it to my long list of disappointments of God's wisdom.

That does seem odd.

Jesus had a conversation with Himself!?

Ya lost me guy. A bridge waaay too far to get to what was already a fairly far fetched interpretation.

Yet, Paul spoke of a war within ourselves.

adam was not innocent, He knew what he was doing. Thats why he was charged with sin.

Sorry bud.. Not true. Adam knew what he was doing.

He blame shifted. Whether it is the truth or not. Instead of sticking up for his wife. He blamed her, Instead of owning his own sin, again he blamed her

Again, The text does not show this

As for a day being like a 1000 years. That was not saying a day is 1000 years. it is telling us that in the eternal perspective a day is like `1000 years.

He was not talking about physical death though. Adam died two deaths.

1 on the day he sinned (spiritual) and one on the day his physical body died (physical)

Believe it or not. Jesus did the same,, He suffered 2 deaths also.. One spiritual and one physical.

He died spiritually, He was seperated by God immediately on the act of sin. And this seperation had to be restored.

God showed how it would be restored. By the death of an Innocent to cover the sin of the person.

Last few pages of this thread has been intriguing. I do know one thing. There was a time when it donned onto me what Adam truly did. He had everything and lacked nothing nor needed anything. He was the top dog of all Creation pertaining to earth and he chose to throw it all away. And when I took into consideration of what Adam had, what he did, and then attempted to play God for a fool. I seriously wanted to physically malign that dude.

When we look at the Fall of Satan and compare it to Adam, there's a lot of similarities.
Satan was given great beauty, authority, prestige, a throne by God, walked threw the stones of fire, had great responsibility and he threw it all away.

Adam basically had a similar role. Power, authority, dominion, prestige, best place to live with the best foods to eat [Tree of Life], he named all life forms, tended God's Garden, was not deceived by Satan so he had control, head of the genders, marriage, relationship, and he threw it all away.

Both of those idiots (Satan and Adam) I would love to take out back to the woodshed.

But I also understand and realize this was God's Plan. And that also irritated me for a while. I got over it (20+ years ago I got over it). But I am so disappointed in both Satan and Adam. God loved them and they betrayed God. So they learned about His Anger. But what a mess those 2 jerks created.

Did I say he never sinned I asked if he willfully sinned with disobedience in mind.

God blamed the serpent for them sinning, he said to the serpent, theese words, because you have done this.

Which means after Adam and eve gave there account to God of what they had done, God examined there hearts and found favour in deciding the serpent was more to blame for misleading them.

What killed Adam and eve the sin or eating from the tree.

Because if your going to say it was the sin that killed him then that means you must have died many times.

. You do not have free will.

Yom is nothing more than the old English tide, one earth cycle.

Cain did not know right from wrong. He is still charged with sin. Not knowing right and wrong doesn't prevent sin.

incorrect God told Cain he could rule over sin.

Why not?
Both of Cain's parents ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. He would have natural law to understand the Act of Murder is a bad thing.

Not according to the LXX in 1 Clement. He said that Cain's gift returned itself, because it was worthless.
1Clem 4:4
And God said unto Cain, Wherefore art thou very sorrowful and
wherefore did thy countenance fall? If thou hast offered aright and
hast not divided aright, didst thou not sin? Hold thy peace.

1Clem 4:5
Unto thee shall he turn, and thou shalt rule over him. {This last
phrase has also been translated: Be at peace: thine offering
returns to thyself, and thou shalt again possess it.}

Yadda and ginoskw mean to perceive rather than gain knowledge. It was about morality; it was about experiences.

God knows your heart,

If God tells you, that you can rule over sin, then you can rule over sin.

Also God was nursing his children at all stages now.

And at this stage he had Adams whole family in captivity

I think it can mean more when we think as soon as they ate they "knew" they were naked and knew to cover themselves and knew they were wrong and hid from God.

They knew enough to make an attempt to correct it.

Man!

Adam caused the fall of all mankind

In Adam all die

You don;t have to say Adam sinned or he did not sin. All we have to do is look at the word. And we know he sinned.