Speculative question regarding abortion and John 1:9

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Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#21
Jul 18, 2017
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#21
LeeLoving said:
I was wondering if anyone sees it this way: that someone is not alive until they're born? Just from this verse alone.
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That is a total misapplication of this verse. The Bible makes it crystal clear that God sees an actual person at conception and until he or she is born. Therefore abortion is murder -- infanticide. If an adult was killed like aborted babies, he would receive the death penalty.

In Roe vs Wade they mentioned the "viability of a fetus" which is not the same as recognizing the personhood of a fetus. "Viability" simply means the ability of the fetus to survive OUTSIDE the uterus. So basically this dodged the question of whether the fetus is a person, and allowed women to have their babies killed on a different basis. The morality of the issue was simply ignored.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#22
Jan 17, 2023
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#22
LeeLoving said:
Luke 1:15 (KJV)
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Well I think this might seal the deal, if John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in his mother's womb and was alive at that point as this verse seems to indicate then I guess life might start at conception. I think there might have been less than 1 billion abortions worldwide ever, maybe less than 500 million, but still that is a lot of people. I guess the city of the saints is going to be large and very populated. I think Shanghai might have less than 25 million people. Wow wow wow, a lot of people.
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This counter never stops.:(
https://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#23
Apr 18, 2013
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#23
NightTwister said:
A child in the womb has already come "into the world."
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Clear point.

A child in the womb is not in outer space... so we can certainly make the case that unborn children have come "into the world."

Where else would we say they are?



.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#24
Mar 1, 2022
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#24
maxwel said:
Clear point.

A child in the womb is not in outer space... so we can certainly make the case that unborn children have come "into the world."

Where else would we say they are?



.
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In an embryonic prison. Free the babies.
 
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Niki7

Guest
#25
#25
LeeLoving said:
John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

I'm just wondering if anyone sees this the same way I kind of do. From this verse it is I guess sort of implied that someone is born when they come into the world, I was wondering if anyone sees it this way: that someone is not alive until they're born? Just from this verse alone. I know that if someone is delivered prematurely that they can still survive, so it might be logical to conclude that someone is alive in the womb... but from this verse perhaps someone needs to be born to be alive? Perhaps it is only after the birthing process that someone is actually alive (even though there is kicking in the womb)? Something that has kind of occurred to me is that if every aborted fetus goes to heaven and is a child there (perhaps that fetus would grow to a child and then the child would be with everyone else) that would be A LOT of people in heaven and in the Millenial Kingdom... something that sort of has a peculiarity to me.
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uh......no.
 
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Niki7

Guest
#27
#27
Cameron143 said:
I heard recently that scientists videotaped the moment of conception and there was an emission of light. The source was a medical professional, but I didn't get his source of the information.
And no, I have no idea how it was actually done. It might well have been the most invasive procedure ever.
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Doctors can create conception outside the womb. Been done many times. No I have no experience with that
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#28
Mar 1, 2022
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#28
Niki7 said:
Doctors can create conception outside the womb. Been done many times. No I have no experience with that
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It was meant as a joke. My parents long ago taught me about the birds and the petri dish.
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#30
Nov 28, 2023
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#30
Folks who say that a baby inside the womb of a mother is not alive or a life are not thinking rationally. It’s not a zombie inside the womb. You can examine that life with technology and see the baby and its different stages with it moving and stuff. If it was not alive, it would not move and or give signs of a heartbeat. A living human being inside a mother is something that moves and is growing. To say so otherwise is just stupidity in the highest order. Folks are only deceiving themselves to say otherwise justify the murder of the innocent. What may be even more shocking to some is that some Modern Bibles leave room for the idea of abortion saying John the Baptist only had the Spirit since birth and not since the womb. Yet, this is not the case for the Bible that existed for hundreds of years and was trusted by many believers as the standard English Bible (i.e., the KJV).
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#31
Mar 1, 2022
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#31
Perhaps scientists should look for life inside the womb as diligently as they look for life in the rest of the universe.
 
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LeeLoving

Member
#32
Sep 24, 2012
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#32
Cameron143 said:
Perhaps scientists should look for life inside the womb as diligently as they look for life in the rest of the universe.
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Has any pro-abortion group ever determined to find out if there is life in the womb or are they like just operating on wishful thinking or something?
 
2ndTimeIsTheCharm

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
#33
Feb 17, 2023
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#33
LeeLoving said:
Has any pro-abortion group ever determined to find out if there is life in the womb or are they like just operating on wishful thinking or something?
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All they have to do is look at are the textbooks on anatomy and physiology in the library. I can lend them my own if they want. The point is that it's so easy to get this information. They just don't want to look for it.


🚀
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#34
Jul 3, 2015
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#34
LeeLoving said:
Has any pro-abortion group ever determined to find out if there is life in the womb or are they like just operating on wishful thinking or something?
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It seems some of the wishful thinking runs along the lines of, this is not a human being until it is
no longer considered a parasite. If you think about it, one must wonder what age that would be,
as children are dependent upon their parents for quite a few number of years even after birth.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#35
Jul 18, 2017
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#35
Cameron143 said:
Perhaps scientists should look for life inside the womb as diligently as they look for life in the rest of the universe.
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They already do. "A prenatal or pregnancy ultrasound uses sound waves to create a picture of your baby on a screen. Pregnancy care providers use it to check on the health of your baby and detect certain pregnancy complications. Most people have two ultrasounds during pregnancy, but you may have more if your provider feels it’s medically necessary."
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diagnostics/9704-ultrasound-in-pregnancy
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#36
Mar 1, 2022
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#36
Nehemiah6 said:
They already do. "A prenatal or pregnancy ultrasound uses sound waves to create a picture of your baby on a screen. Pregnancy care providers use it to check on the health of your baby and detect certain pregnancy complications. Most people have two ultrasounds during pregnancy, but you may have more if your provider feels it’s medically necessary."
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diagnostics/9704-ultrasound-in-pregnancy
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I appreciate the information and I know there are honest scientists doing great work. But that isn't the case with the majority.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#37
Jan 16, 2021
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#37
Let's look at this in context in another translation with punctuation included....
HCSB
8He was not the light,
but he came to testify about the light.
9 The true light, who gives light to everyone,
was coming into the world.


Meaning this scripture does not address the subject at hand.
 
Charlie_2024

Charlie_2024

Banned
#38
Mar 7, 2024
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#38
Cameron143 said:
I heard recently that scientists videotaped the moment of conception and there was an emission of light. The source was a medical professional, but I didn't get his source of the information.
And no, I have no idea how it was actually done. It might well have been the most invasive procedure ever.
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You would be surprised by what modern science has achieved. They usually wait decades before they make their secrets available to the public. So if we think todays technology is amazing, then we would be gob smacked by how advanced they actually are.

The scientific community have been developing Artificial Intelligence and Nano technology for many years now, the public is blissfully unaware at how much power and control that gives them over our lives. It actually a good thing they keep it secret from us as it would blow our minds.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#39
Jan 17, 2023
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#39
Bible_Highlighter said:
Folks who say that a baby inside the womb of a mother is not alive or a life are not thinking rationally. It’s not a zombie inside the womb. You can examine that life with technology and see the baby and its different stages with it moving and stuff. If it was not alive, it would not move and or give signs of a heartbeat. A living human being inside a mother is something that moves and is growing. To say so otherwise is just stupidity in the highest order. Folks are only deceiving themselves to say otherwise justify the murder of the innocent. What may be even more shocking to some is that some Modern Bibles leave room for the idea of abortion saying John the Baptist only had the Spirit since birth and not since the womb. Yet, this is not the case for the Bible that existed for hundreds of years and was trusted by many believers as the standard English Bible (i.e., the KJV).
Click to expand...

I have yet to see a "fetus reveal" party. Enough said, even liberals know it's a baby. ;)
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#40
Jan 17, 2023
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#40
LeeLoving said:
Has any pro-abortion group ever determined to find out if there is life in the womb or are they like just operating on wishful thinking or something?
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They know there is life in the womb. What they're hoping is YOU aren't bright enough to figure it out.
 
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