Is there a difference between the new and old covenant?

That's the point. You are already relating to God through Christ. Every time you try to have a relationship with God through the law, you end up failing and have to deal with God through Christ. Since Christ is the end of the law for all those who believe, why do you insist on relating to God through the law?

I don’t think you understand the law. I never said I was having a relationship with Christ through the law. God writes His law in our hearts Heb 8:10 because he wants our hearts free of sin- so if we keep His law close where He placed it, we are following God, not the opposite, which is called rebellion. The law just shows us our sins Rom 3:20 Romans 7:7 so we are not depending on our righteousness, but God’s Psa 119:172. Sin separates us from God isa 59:2, so if we “do away with the law” its a very bad idea because one would be covering their sins, instead of going to Jesus for His forgiveness mercy, grace and sanctification. Jesus said If you love Me keep My commandments John 14:15 so if you think having a relationship with Christ is not doing what Christ asks through love and faith, well I will pray for you my friend.

If you are talking about curses from the law, you are putting yourself under the law. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. You can say all day you aren't, but...you are.

Jesus came to redeem us from the curse of the law and then sent the Holy Spirit so we could live in His power, not ours. If this was habitually your experience, you wouldn't harp on about the law, but Christ.

Sorry- but one can’t be against God’s law and be walking in Christ. It’s impossible. I know people want to believe so, but it’s just isn’t biblical and Jesus in His own Words says depart from Me. Mat 7:21-23. Not sure why if one was in Christ would not want to do what He asks through faith and love.

Romans 8: 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh (sin) but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh (sin), but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. See (Isa 48:18) 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh (sin) cannot please God.

The lost do not subject themselves to God’s law. If we find ourselves hostile to God’s law, it’s really not a good sign. Not all is lost yet but at some point all decision will be made and fates sealed Rev 22:11, right now we can turn from sin and go to Jesus and repent and change our direction and through His Spirit we can keep His commandments and not sin John 14:15-18 but there is no scripture that says we are saved in our sins. Our salvation is from sin. Mat 1:21

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

No one said anything about being against the law. I'm in favor of keeping the law perfectly. By your own admission you do not. And neither do you ever have any hope of ever doing so this side of the grave. But there is One who has and can live perfectly through us. And if you were experiencing this reality, you would be so amazed by it that you would be talking about it and sharing it with others. But that's not what you are sharing. You are peddling "try your best and then confess". This isn't the victory Jesus left to His people. No one sins when they are actually walking in the Spirit.

Not even Paul claims he is without sin. 1 Tim 1:15

I have never known someone without sin who is hostile to God’s law. It’s an oxymoron.

Yes, I am a sinner in need of a Savior. I guess someone who never sins doesn’t really need Christ as He came to save us from our sins. Mat 1:21

Take care.

You always change the subject. I never said anyone doesn't sin. I said no one walking in the Spirit sins.
My point was that someone walking under the influence of the Spirit isn't thinking about sin,but living in the presence and power of God.
No one has ever kept the law by trying to keep the law. They keep the law by walking in the Spirit. Someone who believes they are keeping the law as a matter of personal endeavor are fooling themselves.

You don‘t seem to read my posts or read the scriptures I provide. Who did I say was writing the law in our hearts- God. Heb 8:10 Who gives us power to obey His commandments- Jesus through His Spirit John 14:15-18.

Of course we can’ do anything on our own- everything comes from Christ, but we have to cooperate with Him- He will never force us to obey Him and if we are hostile to His law He has no choice but to leave. He will try to call us out of rebellion if our heart is open Heb 3:7-8 but not sure why if someone is in Christ would object to keeping His law or object why others would teach to keep. Jesus literally commissions us to Mat 5:19

Not sure how fruitful our discussions are so will leave it as agree to disagree. I wish you well in seeking Truth to His Word.

There you go again...distorting what I wrote, implying I'm against keeping the law. And our cooperation is abiding in Him, not obeying commandments. You simply have no idea what it is to live in the power of Christ. If you did, you would not share as you do.

Christ is the only One who knows who is in Him and who is not. All we can do is share scriptures with each other as to what God’s Word says and pray for each other that we will seek the Truth of His Word.

Take care.

Do you know if you are in Christ?

I do and thats between me and Christ.

All we can do is point out scriptures to each other and pray for each other, it’s not our job to judge who is or is not in Christ. Only Christ knows our hearts, we are not God, it’s better to focus on ourselves on how we can be better servants to Him and worry less about others. We are not judged based on what others do or don’t know, we all have to stand before Jesus one day real soon based on what we do. 2 Cor 5:10

So people can know if they are in Christ. And part of scripture tells us we can know people by their fruit. And how do you know what and how to share if you can't evaluate on some level the spiritual estate of another?
The idea that you can run and hide when it comes to being in Christ when you are speaking about spiritual matters and what it means to be in Christ is inconsistent. Either you are and you can speak to the issue or you can't. What you proffer on a subject does reveal your understanding and experience of it.

No one is running or hiding. My relationship with Christ is between He and I. Just like your relationship with Christ is between you and He. To claim someone is not in Christ is above one’s pay grade as only God knows our heart. We can share scriptures with each other in hopes one will consider, but to get personal and make claims one has no way of knowing, not conducive for Christian fellowship.

People can make all kinds of accusations, they did about Christ , they did about the apostles and look how wrong they were. Accusations about other people typically say more about the person making them than anything else. Jesus addresses this in Mat 7.

“There is no scripture that says Jesus was born under the law of Moses. It’s best not to add what’s not there.”

“Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭NIV‬‬


It’s really hard to discuss Scripture and what it actually says with you , you just ignore everything that would teach you anything . Or say it’s not there and other people twist things …..I’m starting to think it’s like spinning wheels in the mud .

Its barely possible that you could still learn new things if you aren’t conviced thier not there

Can you point out where it says “law of Moses”. There are lots of laws in scriptures. Not all laws are the law of Moses.

The only reason you know there are such a thing as Ten Commandments is because Moses wrote them in the book of the law

It’s called the law of Moses because Moses was the one who saved them when God decided to destroy them for worshipping the calf when he was upon Sinai. Moses is the one God made thier leader and ruler he’s the one who went and met with God and then commanded the people ect

How is it you are focused on the law but have no understanding of it ? And won’t accept any trying it says in it either ? You don’t seem to know Who the mediator was . who interceded to save israel when God decided to destroy them and start over with Moses ? Who God ordained over the people ? What blood they shed According to all Moses said the first of which were the Ten Commandments God gave to him for the children of Israel to live by in thier promised land when he Moses went up into the cloud upon Sinai

It’s almost like you have never read Moses five books and how the commandments were given. who they were given to . who mediated that word .with what specific people he made the covenant. neither it seems have you read the blessings of complete obedience of the whole law and every command and ordinance nor the cursings of breaking any of it

I think you’ve worn me out lol 😂

God takes credit for writing the Ten Commandments, not Moses. They were written by the finger of God on stone, not handwritten by Moses in a book. What Moses wrote in a book is called the law of Moses, it was placed outside the ark Deuteronomy 31:26 Deut 29:21, where as the Ten Commandments was placed inside Exo 40:20. What God personally wrote on stone -God calls “My commandments” Exo 20:6 and Jesus called the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14

Exodus 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exodus 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

“and by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is why it’s called the law of “Moses “
After the people heard Gods voice like a trumpet and saw the fire they said this to Moses making him the mediator

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.

Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25, 27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they chose Moses to be the next ne to go close to god and hear what he said and then come back and tell them what he said and they had agreed that whatever it was they would obey it all

moses then concedes and enters into the cloud where he Moses will receive the Ten Commandments and he will lead israel into the promised land with thier law. “ the law of Moses is another way to say the word of Moses “

These people needed a law

“And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look what God says to them after the experience in the desert with them and just before moses is going to die

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it: and I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite: unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭33:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭9:13-14‬ ‭

Later thier descendants

“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭

To thier descendants

“Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.”
‭‭2 Chronicles‬ ‭30:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

…..can you see how telling sinful people “ don’t sin “ is never going to make anyone righteous ?

abut the doctrine in the gospel is completely different it’s new and better and can take a sinner and make them righteous actually change them from a sinful person in thier hesrt to a righteous person in thier heart

If our heart is right we’ll never kill anyone we don’t need to be told anymore , we won’t commit adultery or steal from one another ect if we get our heart right we’ll never need to be told not to do evil ……we’ll just be able to follow our new heart filled with the right information on the gospel

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yeah I think I quoted that several times lol God appointed Moses mediator between he and Israel’s children and made a covenant with them through Moses ……..your just set on arguing about anything it seems like at this point God spoke the Ten Commandments first…..he spoke them to the children of Israel and the. Made a covenant based on the mediations of Moses with those ten laws as a foundation it’s all one law of you are a Christian all you need is the gospel that’s enough to lead us to righteousness the law can’t do that whether you want to say it’s not the law of Moses

“And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s called the law of Moses because like the lord said

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those are the names of the mediators of each covenant Moses words and Jesus words moses mediated the Ten Commandments and everything else for Israel until he died for his own sin and Joshua took over and led them into Israel and then of course he read the law of Moses to them the Ten Commandments being the first

“as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel. And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.

There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:33-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law
the law of Moses
The book of the law

The same law Moses was the mediator who received the Ten Commandments and wrote the entire book of Israel’s law

“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:56‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I guess you can do the hoop jumping and try to now create a bunch of different laws and somehow try to remove the Ten Commandments from the law mediated by Moses or the “law of Moses “ but it’s sort of seeming like wasted time for me at this point

i appreciate the conversation and good spirit either way and hope you begin to hear the apostles in tbe New Testament and what they teach regarding the law

No one is taught to keep sinning by Jesus he’s able to lead us out of it but not by the Ten Commandments