Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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selahsays

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May 31, 2023
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Jesus is the predestined one and He called the many.

It nowhere says the many who are called is predestined anywhere.
Consider—
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

- Ephesians 1:11-12
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Consider—
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

- Ephesians 1:11-12
Still talking about God predestining Jesus.
It literally begins in Him (Jesus), who is the predestined.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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Still talking about God predestining Jesus.
It literally begins in Him (Jesus), who is the predestined.
The "inheritance" we receive is part of God's predestined plan. Let’s read it again:
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

- Ephesians 1:11-12
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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The "inheritance" we receive is part of God's predestined plan. Let’s read it again:
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

- Ephesians 1:11-12
Agreed, but the Inheritance Plan was predestined to go through HIM/Jesus.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Not at all. How m
Your right again.

ISREAL as a nation is in sight. (not nations) God however does make the argument the gentiles would be brought in towards the end of Chapter 9..

Deny it all you want. But vs 1 - 5 prove this..


Once again, israel is in view (only God called them jacob here)


Sorry. But God never calls the gentiles elect in Chapter 11.. Every time the word elect is used it concerns israel. No gentile is included

Vs 5. A remnant, according to election. This is the saved of Israel..
Vs 7 The elect has obtained it the rest were blinded.. These again are saved Israel vs the blinded Israel.
Vs 28, Israel is our enemy concerning the gospel. but beloved concerning the election. Again, israel not gentiles.




The church is not a nation. it is a body of Christ.


God did not elect Jacob to salvation, He chose him as a nation..

Thats where the fatalistic view of romans 9 is in error
Of course, all God's chosen people are elect. Read Rom 8:28-30. Do you really think that Paul is writing to only Jewish Christians in Rome? Doesn't Paul in his epistle address is remarks specifically to Jewish believers sometimes and then and to Gentile believers at other times? Was not Paul writing to ALL in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints (Rom 1:7)?

And the Church is God's Nation! Who do you think Jesus was referring to in Mat 21:43,if not the Body of Christ!? To which "nation" did Jesus give the kingdom when he took it away from the nation of Israel?

And God did elect Jacob, just like he elected Issac before him. That's the entire point to Rom9:6ff.

Rom 9:6-16
6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not ALL who are descended from Israel (Jacob ) are [elect] Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son."

10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad — in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls — she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."


16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
NIV

Verse 8 is making a crystal clear distinction between the natural, biological descendants of Abraham and the supernatural, spiritual descendants of the patriarch. There are TWO Israels in view here. The children of Israel according to the flesh, and the children of Israel according to God's promise. In other words, not ALL Israel who descended from Israel are [elect] Israel (verse 6). The Nation was chosen by God, but not everyone in the nation! Kinda like the world that God so loved. God loves the world in a limited sense, just like he elected the Israel according to promiose in the same limited sense.

And what part of vv.14-16 don't you understand?
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Jesus is the predestined one and He called the many.

It nowhere says the many who are called is predestined anywhere.
Read verse 30...Whom He did predestinate, THEM He called...The whom He did predestinate is THEM. Jesus isn't THEM; Jesus is He.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Read verse 30...Whom He did predestinate, THEM He called...The whom He did predestinate is THEM. Jesus isn't THEM; Jesus is He.
Verse 30 is a continuation of verse 29 and only one was determined to be predestined.
Verse 30 just says the one who was predestined is the one who is calling them, not that them is predestined at all.

But hey, that messes up with your doctrine that God sent people to hell.
So believe your doctrine.
I will believe the Bible (y)
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Verse 30 is a continuation of verse 29 and only one was determined to be predestined.
Verse 30 just says the one who was predestined is the one who is calling them, not that them is predestined at all.

But hey, that messes up with your doctrine that God sent people to hell.
So believe your doctrine.
I will believe the Bible (y)
You are distorting the clear meaning of the verse. I'm never worried about doctrine. I'm seeking truth. Truth should be what determines doctrine.
 

MerSee

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Jan 13, 2024
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You are distorting the clear meaning of the verse. I'm never worried about doctrine. I'm seeking truth. Truth should be what determines doctrine.
You should be worried about whether or not you believe sound doctrine.

2 Timothy 4:3
For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:
 

FollowerofShiloh

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You are distorting the clear meaning of the verse. I'm never worried about doctrine. I'm seeking truth. Truth should be what determines doctrine.
It's impossible to distort it because the whole conglomerate verses speak of the ONE who is predestined.
Why are you adding yourself like you are someone God used for His work in salvation?
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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It's impossible to distort it because the whole conglomerate verses speak of the ONE who is predestined.
Why are you adding yourself like you are someone God used for His work in salvation?
Whom and them are equated in verse 30, not whom and He.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Whom and them are equated in verse 30, not whom and He.
29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be firstborn among many brethren

30 and whom he predestinated, these he also called; and whom he called, these he also declared righteous; and whom he declared righteous, these he also made glorious.

Verse 30 is clearly Jesus in the portion [that he might be firstborn among many brethren 30 and whom he predestinated]
The ending of verse 29 and beginning of verse 30 is a continuation on who is PREDESTINED...Jesus.