Do the non-elect have free-will?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
796
119
43
#1
Who:(The non-elect)
What:(Free-will)
When, where, how, and why did it go wrong for those who are not of the elect?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,948
419
83
#2
People are too quick to determine what free will means.

Does an unbeliever have the choice to run a red light, or stop?

The only issue concerning free will concerning the anyone is the ability to believe in Christ.

For the flesh opposes the Spirit.... Galatians 5:17

So, even for us who believed?
How did we find ourselves able to believe?

GRACE..
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
796
119
43
#3
People are too quick to determine what free will means.

Does an unbeliever have the choice to run a red light, or stop?

The only issue concerning free will concerning the anyone is the ability to believe in Christ.

For the flesh opposes the Spirit.... Galatians 5:17

So, even for us who believed?
How did we find ourselves able to believe?

GRACE..
Do you believe everyone has free-will to believe sound doctrine of Jesus Christ? To believe Jesus Christ is to believe His sound doctrine.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,948
419
83
#4
Do you believe everyone has free-will to believe sound doctrine of Jesus Christ? To believe Jesus Christ is to believe His sound doctrine.
So far, I think you did not read correctly what I said.

So, even for us who believed?
How did we find ourselves able to believe?

GRACE.. (is how)
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#5
Do you believe everyone has free-will to believe sound doctrine of Jesus Christ? To believe Jesus Christ is to believe His sound doctrine.
No, the Elect don’t. They were chosen by God.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,948
419
83
#6
No, the Elect don’t. They were chosen by God.

That really explains nothing.....

While the Bible, after some study and learning, explains how salvation is made possible for fallen man.

Telling someone what to believe without explaining how they can believe it?
Where does that leave the hearer?

It leaves him lost.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,474
455
83
#7
Do you believe everyone has free-will to believe sound doctrine of Jesus Christ? To believe Jesus Christ is to believe His sound doctrine.
To will in the new testament is the Greek word "Thelein" . It means to desire, to want, to will.
The will in the Greek New Testament is "hE thelEma". It means the desire, the will.

Can someone who does not believe something, nevertheless want to believe it? Can I stop someone from believing something they want to believe? Can I force spmeone to want to believe something they don't want to believe?
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#8
That really explains nothing.....

While the Bible, after some study and learning, explains how salvation is made possible for fallen man.

Telling someone what to believe without explaining how they can believe it?
Where does that leave the hearer?

It leaves him lost.
What are you talking about? I was answering MerSee’s question.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#9
At least in the States, every Easter and Christmas millions of non-believers attend church services. Only a small percentage of those end up accepting Christ and being filled with the Holy Spirit. The greater percentage rejects God and next year will attend and do it all over again. Those who reject can only do so by rejecting God's invitation to them. We know believing in Jesus comes by hearing the Gospel preached. So these people are hearing about Jesus from preaching but still not believing. That can only be by "Free Will."
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
796
119
43
#10
So far, I think you did not read correctly what I said.

So, even for us who believed?
How did we find ourselves able to believe?

GRACE.. (is how)
We find ourselves able to believe by accepting the grace to believe in Jesus correctly. Simple. :)
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#11
Who:(The non-elect)
What:(Free-will)
When, where, how, and why did it go wrong for those who are not of the elect?
People like to think they have free will.

But the word knows better as does this good fellow .. 😊

Screenshot_20240420-002515.png
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#12
People like to think they have free will.

But the word knows better as does this good fellow .. 😊

Calvin is talking about the Christian not having "free will" because we are submitting to God's Perfect Will.
Which also means those not saved do have "free will."
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,779
624
113
#14
So your asking do sinners, lost, wicked, unrighteous, non-elect have free will? Seems Adam and Eve had it.. then after the fall still had it up to when Christ came rose AMEN we as in all man have free will. Hmm what if we take a big bottle and put some water in it and a ship and people tell them sail, go anywhere you want.

Were looking at this in side that bottle. This is not the real realm so to speak. So many feelings thoughts, desires are only because of the fall. When we die go to Him.. most of these thoughts feelings, desires will vanish because it came from sin the fall never from God.

I remember thinking about hell.. I was 12 or so. Asked who can you send all these people to hell. Haha.. never expected answer but He said "For God so loved the world. Everyone gets a choice". I truly believe that.

When Christ died rose walked 40 more days.. were there no lost during that time? He was no out there preaching nor where the 12/120. What am I saying? No clue haha. Its just something here were not seeing.

I believe He some way some how always makes sure we get a choice. I didn't find Him.. if He found me then He does the same for all. And yes I had a free choice as does everyone else.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#15
People are too quick to determine what free will means.

Does an unbeliever have the choice to run a red light, or stop?

The only issue concerning free will concerning the anyone is the ability to believe in Christ.

For the flesh opposes the Spirit.... Galatians 5:17

So, even for us who believed?
How did we find ourselves able to believe?

GRACE..
Can you Bend spoons to 😋
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#16
We find ourselves able to believe by accepting the grace to believe in Jesus correctly. Simple. :)
Did Paul have a choice? No. Paul was made an apostle by the will of God.
Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads." So he, trembling and astonished, said, "Lord, what do You want me to do?" Then the Lord said to him, "Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

- Acts 9:1-6


Some folks were chosen before the foundation of the world and predestined for a specific purpose in this age. The Bible refers to these brothers and sisters as "the elect".
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#17
Calvin is talking about the Christian not having "free will" because we are submitting to God's Perfect Will.
Which also means those not saved do have "free will."
I have to ask if christians dont have free will.

Why should anyone else.

I think what's lost is God does not want anyone to die.

So when we look at Adam and see God said Adam would die, God was not talking about his life in Adam would die,..Hid was saying Adam would die, So the truth is that God wants his life to live in all men.

His life has all men under the power of death until life again.

Because he wants them to live with him and in him as it's his life in all men.

Saved or unsaved.

It's his will,

It's just not possible to have free will.

It's this definition of free will in the dictionary that's false.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#18
Screenshot_20240424-223251 (1).png

@Dino246 doesn't like bending spoons 😋

No me neither


Don't forget to thank me for freeing you from false calvinism


Don't forget jean Calvin said everyone is divinely sown a seed of religion by God.

So it's time for you to be a true calvin

I can help you with this.

Ans most of all remember

Quotation-John-Calvin-Humility-is-the-beginning-of-true-intelligence-55-81-51.jpg
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,948
419
83
#19
What are you talking about? I was answering MerSee’s question.

:unsure: ...oooooohhh!

MerSee who was answering my question...

So.. I responded to your comment which was made to MerSee who was answering my question.

What we ended up with?

Was both of us running in a three legged race!

 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#20
:unsure: ...oooooohhh!

MerSee who was answering my question...

So.. I responded to your comment which was made to MerSee who was answering my question.

What we ended up with?

Was both of us running in a three legged race!

Ha! I was hoping it was some kind of mix-up. IMG_4539.gif