The 'ELECT' vs 'Free-Choice'

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FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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She is mad at the UN for this:

The UN Secretary General has decided that he does not recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization that sexually harmed the victims of Oct. 7th. The burning I felt in my body when I read this could have burned an entire galaxy.

His unbearable ignorance only proves that “Screams Before Silence” is a must- watch documentary. It sheds light on the sexual horrors Hamas committed on October 7th.

Does that read she is HAMAS?
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
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She is mad at the UN for this:

The UN Secretary General has decided that he does not recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization that sexually harmed the victims of Oct. 7th. The burning I felt in my body when I read this could have burned an entire galaxy.

His unbearable ignorance only proves that “Screams Before Silence” is a must- watch documentary. It sheds light on the sexual horrors Hamas committed on October 7th.

Does that read she is HAMAS?
This is what she is talking about. This happened to her country women and girls.

 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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Barbarians. Condoned under Islam. That Christians defend such is indefensible.
I have no words to say.
But the World-Wide Leaders who have condemned Israel for attacking HAMAS have seen this documentary and still side against the real victims of October 7.
Spending Eternity in Hell is too good for them..
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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But you answered in the affirmative when I asked,

Ah... so is it that you believe not all were chosen, but of those not chosen, some will choose to believe regardless?

You follow that up by saying all who believe are elect. So you really have not been solid on your stance.
selahsays let’s all keep studying … bye. :)
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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I’ve lost interest in this thread, and am tapping the “unwatch” button. This thread is a good example of the confusion (babble) of the end times.

—Selah
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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London
christianchat.com
I have come across an idea lately within this forum, that some believe that there are 2 classes of Christian. They believe that there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what and the 2nd class being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.

This is different from Calvinism as Calvinism believes God decides, or has decided, who will be saved and who will never be saved.

It is also not Arminianism because choice is given, according to this belief, to everyone.

While people will continue to debate reformed vs non-reformed, this 2 tier believer system is not available as a 3rd option that I have found nor anyone else or anywhere for that matter. I have searched different teachers/teachings, various articles and so on and the conclusions of people more knowledgeable than anyone in this forum, is that it does not exist.

Just interested in what others might have to say. I have no idea whether or not the person(s) presenting this idea will defend what they believe or not.

For clairity's sake, I am neither reformed or non-reformed. I tend to think that no one can come up with exactly what the Bible has in mind when it states 'from the foundation of the world'. I do not agree with the approach of Calvinism to settle it and I do not appreciate the Arminiam viewpoint either because of problems it presents.

Not to start another debate about reformed/vs non, we have a library of those already, but to take a look at the elect who have no choice in being saved and the rest of humanity who can choose whether or not to accept Christ.

That's about it.
do you know what the last battle which is looming will be about?

Pre-destiny and election that's right.

Has God pre-determined Israel's future, has He elected them. ?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
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If can all agree to put him on Ignore? It would be good.

If only a few do?
He will keep interrupting and disrupting any study that could have been meaningful...
true,

But if we stop feeding him, He will go away..
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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If they believe that Jesus is not the Messiah, and say they are waiting for another? How can they be Messianic?

.
That's Messianic by definition...they are awaiting a Messiah. They believe there will come a Messiah.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
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Barbarians. Condoned under Islam. That Christians defend such is indefensible.
We are in a world where the ends justified the means.

If one person or group does it, it is evil and deserves judgment, But if another group or person does the same thing, its perfectly ok.

We see it in politics and in all the riots of the past 4 years
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,431
582
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I have come across an idea lately within this forum, that some believe that there are 2 classes of Christian. They believe that there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what and the 2nd class being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.

This is different from Calvinism as Calvinism believes God decides, or has decided, who will be saved and who will never be saved.

It is also not Arminianism because choice is given, according to this belief, to everyone.

While people will continue to debate reformed vs non-reformed, this 2 tier believer system is not available as a 3rd option that I have found nor anyone else or anywhere for that matter. I have searched different teachers/teachings, various articles and so on and the conclusions of people more knowledgeable than anyone in this forum, is that it does not exist.

Just interested in what others might have to say. I have no idea whether or not the person(s) presenting this idea will defend what they believe or not.

For clairity's sake, I am neither reformed or non-reformed. I tend to think that no one can come up with exactly what the Bible has in mind when it states 'from the foundation of the world'. I do not agree with the approach of Calvinism to settle it and I do not appreciate the Arminiam viewpoint either because of problems it presents.

Not to start another debate about reformed/vs non, we have a library of those already, but to take a look at the elect who have no choice in being saved and the rest of humanity who can choose whether or not to accept Christ.

That's about it.
Man has choice yet its governed and enslaved to a evil heart and nature, so its void of any Spiritually good choices, Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Our nature prior to new birth which sets us free Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So our choices before regeneration will be dictated by our evil heart and nature, even our most moral and honest choices.
 

BeeBlessed

Active member
Jun 1, 2023
251
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If can all agree to put him on Ignore? It would be good.

If only a few do?
He will keep interrupting and disrupting any study that could have been meaningful...
Why would you say such a thing about a brother?
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
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Why does this matter to you whether im Jewish

Or why should it matter if I'm a universalist

Or why should it matter what label I am, or what label anyone else is.

The only thing that matters is how precious Gods life is.

And also his Life lives in everyone,

His word says Jesus was the living stone that became a more precious stone and all people have a stone of Jesus living in them before they to become a more precious stone, that's what his word says.

And his words says all people are in the book of life with his stone of life, a heavenly jewel given to Adam to be the jewel of all men, whether governed by the power of life or under the power of death.

His word says all people are in the book of life and remain in his book of life unless they are blotted out.

They all have the same name, it's called life and a living stone of Jesus. That is eunique to them because there earthly body inscribes his stone with a eunique identity, but it's still all the same to God, it's called his life.

The holy spirit spoke to the Jews and said you where not once a people and now you are.

is this universal yes it is, it is God's life, that lives in everyone, and his life ties everyone to the old covenant with his laws written on there hearts , and the only way the old covenant is taken away is unless it's taken away by the chief corner stone Christ

This is the universal life of Christ it's the truth of all truth.


Neither is it being a troll it's called being a steward of God's word.

Neither it is being a universalist

It's called valuing life, his life

It's called telling people what they have.

It's called asking people to search within.

Are theese people going to universal about this.

Well no take a look around buddy.

Is it not universal that God wants all life saved.

Should it matter what label is out on his life.

What matter is the ransom he put on his life.

What matters is making people feal they have something, a living stone of Jesus in them.

What matter is telling them where this life was created in Adam in heaven to be the life of all people.

They have to listen tho.

Are you listening

Well do the right thing and accept it.

Because this distortion is leading no where.

The bible Is not about who is more chosen than anyone else.

God had to start somewhere right.


Now you listen to these words and you take them in.

And you bless this lady. And you stop listening to self centred people here. Bullies they are



 
N

Niki7

Guest
You pretend that Selah did nothing wrong - you're just as dishonest as she is. And this WHOLE thread shows both of your lies and gaslighting.

And even though I didn't name you, it's funny that you think I did. I wonder why. :sneaky:


🍤
No one was named and the op was not constructed in such a way as to point anyone out. However, it seems that the need to defend illogical and unbiblical ideologies was just too much for those acting in that manner and they had to claim their handiwork.

I think that people have pretty much self identified here while falsely accusing and trying very hard to create some kind of self righteous pretense that they are being picked on and gossiped about. Of course, that is a totally false narrative.

Frankly, I was surprised at the way it blew up.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
do you know what the last battle which is looming will be about?

Pre-destiny and election that's right.

Has God pre-determined Israel's future, has He elected them. ?
well we can restrict that to the prophecy thread

this was or should have been, a small self-contained discussion and not the power grab some tried

I don't think your post considers the op and the op was not about pre-determination at all
 
N

Niki7

Guest
Man has choice yet its governed and enslaved to a evil heart and nature, so its void of any Spiritually good choices, Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Our nature prior to new birth which sets us free Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So our choices before regeneration will be dictated by our evil heart and nature, even our most moral and honest choices.
well a person can pick and choose verses they believe apply to their particular beliefs....OR....they can consider the whole biblical counsel

The Holy Spirit does not indwell someone who has not accepted Christ. there is not one indication in scripture that that occurs and there is no defense available for anyone to persuade others that He does
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,936
1,132
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No one was named and the op was not constructed in such a way as to point anyone out. However, it seems that the need to defend illogical and unbiblical ideologies was just too much for those acting in that manner and they had to claim their handiwork.

I think that people have pretty much self identified here while falsely accusing and trying very hard to create some kind of self righteous pretense that they are being picked on and gossiped about. Of course, that is a totally false narrative.

Frankly, I was surprised at the way it blew up.

Yup, to all that you wrote above.

I was surprised too but I think God allowed it to happen to expose people's hearts. You don't really know how much a Christian abides in Christ until a crisis comes out. Then you see whether they act in accordance to the Holy Spirit or in their flesh. I found it to be very revealing.


🍟