The Law Poses Two Questions...

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Cameron143

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#41
Yeah brother

“But the words and deeds are a reflection of who Christ has made them. A new creation doesn't speak and do as an old creation”

what does this actually mean ?

“Now I do believe we are all given gifts and talents and are expected to improve what the LORD has entrusted us with. “

you mean spiritual gifts for the body ? Or are you referring to the parable of the talents ? That’s a measure of money in the parable but it’s not about money or judgement day ….

“But this is what believers will be judged on.” We will not give an accounting of our sins. Jesus already did that and there is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ”

So not this

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this part which believers of the gospel know

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Does his judgement about that stand still ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you see the conundrum when we conclude there’s no condition ? Then we’re forced to reject everything we learn that he said about everything really lol

if I’m saying I’m already forgiven doesn’t matter …..I then can reject what the lord taught me about forgivness receiving and also giving it and argue against what the lord actually taught believers to believe about forgivness

but if I’m humble I can easily understand “ this is the son of God teaching believers in him about forgivness which he was going to die to purchase for them …it’s my lord and savior teaching me about forgivness in a very straight forward simple way

We’re supposed to let the lord change our minds by accepting his word that’s how he effectively changes us …..


“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:”

…“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our sins are forgiven by him now we have to stop serving the devils Will which is sin. And when we do sin we need to repent and confess like he taught
It means we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works. And God is with us and in us to ensure our success.
I've for a long time believed that Christians live so far beneath their calling. And the reason is is that too few actually realize the power that is at work in them and what is actually possible for us. We are partakers of the divine nature and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is at work in us. We aren't to get up each day and keep commandments and do works. We are to get up each day and commune with God. And out of this communion and fellowship we are to demonstrate the love of God that is being shed abroad in our hearts. All day long we should be tabernacling with God learning of Him and submitting to Him. And as we do, the life of Christ is lived out through us. There is no effort on our part to choose our words or actions. Jesus is speaking and doing for us.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#42
It means we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works. And God is with us and in us to ensure our success.
I've for a long time believed that Christians live so far beneath their calling. And the reason is is that too few actually realize the power that is at work in them and what is actually possible for us. We are partakers of the divine nature and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is at work in us. We aren't to get up each day and keep commandments and do works. We are to get up each day and commune with God. And out of this communion and fellowship we are to demonstrate the love of God that is being shed abroad in our hearts. All day long we should be tabernacling with God learning of Him and submitting to Him. And as we do, the life of Christ is lived out through us. There is no effort on our part to choose our words or actions. Jesus is speaking and doing for us.
“There is no effort on our part to choose our words or actions. Jesus is speaking and doing for us”

wow brother that’s a doozy
 

Cameron143

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#45
Yeah it seems to be your belief brother and I do respect you so I appreciate the discussion as always
I'm not saying we don't apply ourselves as much as we can. We should be zealous in our pursuit of God, His righteousness, and His kingdom. I'm saying our best life is the one that Christ lives through us.
 

studentoftheword

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Nov 12, 2021
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#46
Who is the Law for today ----all unbelievers ----


1 Timothy 1

GOD’S WORD Translation

9 For example, a person must realize that those laws are not intended for people who have God’s approval.
Laws are intended for lawbreakers and rebels, for ungodly people and sinners, for those who think nothing is holy or sacred, for those who kill their fathers, their mothers, or other people.

10 Laws are intended for people involved in sexual sins, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for those who lie when they take an oath, and for whatever else is against accurate teachings.
 

Pilgrimshope

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#47
I'm not saying we don't apply ourselves as much as we can. We should be zealous in our pursuit of God, His righteousness, and His kingdom. I'm saying our best life is the one that Christ lives through us.
Im not rejecting what you’re saying brother I recognize some from scripture like peter or Paul’s writings. And mean I respect what you believe.

It’s hard sometimes to get you to acknowledge scripture though 😂😅
 

Cameron143

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#48
Im not rejecting what you’re saying brother I recognize some from scripture like peter or Paul’s writings. And mean I respect what you believe.

It’s hard sometimes to get you to acknowledge scripture though 😂😅
Try 1 at a time.
 

Cameron143

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#49
Im not rejecting what you’re saying brother I recognize some from scripture like peter or Paul’s writings. And mean I respect what you believe.

It’s hard sometimes to get you to acknowledge scripture though 😂😅
The reason my theology comes from the epistles primarily is because they are addressed to a new covenant church. While Jesus' words are all true, they are addressing primarily Jews under a works covenant.
Do you imagine if Jesus came today He would say to the people to do as the Pharisees say? Why not? Because it doesn't apply to those in the new covenant.
The epistles are equally the words of Christ and are authoritative for us. Further, they teach us how to live in Christ.
 

Pilgrimshope

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#50
The reason my theology comes from the epistles primarily is because they are addressed to a new covenant church. While Jesus' words are all true, they are addressing primarily Jews under a works covenant.
Do you imagine if Jesus came today He would say to the people to do as the Pharisees say? Why not? Because it doesn't apply to those in the new covenant.
The epistles are equally the words of Christ and are authoritative for us. Further, they teach us how to live in Christ.
Naw brother your way off regarding the words of the Lord. The messiah is where the life is found
 

p_rehbein

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Sep 4, 2013
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#54
The reason my theology comes from the epistles primarily is because they are addressed to a new covenant church. While Jesus' words are all true, they are addressing primarily Jews under a works covenant.
Do you imagine if Jesus came today He would say to the people to do as the Pharisees say? Why not? Because it doesn't apply to those in the new covenant.
The epistles are equally the words of Christ and are authoritative for us. Further, they teach us how to live in Christ.
Every thing Jesus said during His Ministry was for the Church. The Apostles did not speak/teach their own Gospel, they spoke/taught the Gospel of Jesus. To exclude the very words of Jesus from anyone's theology is to create a flawed theology.

No wonder we rarely agree on anything...
 

Cameron143

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#55
Every thing Jesus said during His Ministry was for the Church. The Apostles did not speak/teach their own Gospel, they spoke/taught the Gospel of Jesus. To exclude the very words of Jesus from anyone's theology is to create a flawed theology.

No wonder we rarely agree on anything...
They taught how to live in the new covenant. Just one question, if Jesus came back today, would He tell us to do as the Pharisees say? Why or why not?
I never said I exclude the words of Jesus.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#56
[/QUOTE]
Every thing Jesus said during His Ministry was for the Church. The Apostles did not speak/teach their own Gospel, they spoke/taught the Gospel of Jesus. To exclude the very words of Jesus from anyone's theology is to create a flawed theology.

No wonder we rarely agree on anything...
“Every thing Jesus said during His Ministry was for the Church. “

Amen !!! its for every creature of God and will determine thier salvation or damnation.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#57
They taught how to live in the new covenant. Just one question, if Jesus came back today, would He tell us to do as the Pharisees say? Why or why not?
I never said I exclude the words of Jesus.
“I never said I exclude the words of Jesus.”

phew!! 😅😂😅 thaaaank goodness

“And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:23-26‬ ‭
 

Cameron143

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#58
“I never said I exclude the words of Jesus.”

phew!! 😅😂😅 thaaaank goodness

“And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:23-26‬ ‭
You didn't answer the questions I asked. If everything Jesus said was for the Church, if He were to come back today,would He tell the church to do as the Pharisees say? Why or why not?
 

Pilgrimshope

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#59
You didn't answer the questions I asked. If everything Jesus said was for the Church, if He were to come back today,would He tell the church to do as the Pharisees say? Why or why not?
Why would he tell the church what he told unbelieving Pharisees trying to accuse and kill him ? What he said to them would be applicable to non believers .

What I said was his word is for all creatures and will determine thier life or death thier salvation or damnation

you have to look at if Jesus is teaching the his disciples or rebuking non believing Pharisees but yeah everything he said is applicable he is the Lord

of course those born under the law were told to keep it . That was thier covenant Thani tilnjesus shed his blood for his covenant

“For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:16-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a Jesus words became the covenant after he died not before he had to shed his blood to remit the ot word
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#60
You didn't answer the questions I asked. If everything Jesus said was for the Church, if He were to come back today,would He tell the church to do as the Pharisees say? Why or why not?
Brother Jesus and all of his apostles were born while the law of Moses was still the covenant being fulfilled . This is when he began preaching the New Testament that applies to all people believers and also non believers

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the new testement the gospel of the kingdom Jesus was promised in the Old Testament that he would come and speak Gods true words of requirement for every soul of man whoever accepted him would be saved whoever rejected him would be damned

Before jesus died he was only preaching the gospel to israel before th y rejected and killed him

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then he began saying this

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After he shed his blood to remit sin under the Old Testament

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬

the same gospel is preached foret to jew then to gentile there’s absolutely no difference . The o my difference is the old covenant law ended with Christs bloodshed and his words became the eternal testament

are we carefully what’s being said here regarding two testaments and who the mediator of each is

“And for this cause he ( jesus ) is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
( Jesus spoke the gospel then shed his blood ( his life ) and it went into effect )


Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:15-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s exactly what Jesus did he oresched the gospel bout three years in Israel then he shed the blood of the covenant he’d given them

“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭14:24‬ ‭

after jesus had preached the gospel to them he sent them out to everyone with the same message

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s never going to be another way another covenant word another sacrifice for anyone on earth we have to be saved the same way Peter and then we’re being a Jew or gentile doesn’t mean anything anymore