Dogs Returning To Their Vomit

If you reject the gospel. You are still a dog.. And while you may act like a new creature. Your still a dog and will return to your vomit.

There is the work of salvation

while there is also the work of changing us to be christlike.

they are not the same work.

“So what exactly should we understand from these verses?”

They say what they say “ Gods Will is for no soul to perish , his Will is that all sinners would accept the truth come to repentance and be saved and not perish “ we’re supposed to accept what it says not try to figure out what it “really means “ this verse means what it says

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he didn’t choose some to be saved by his Will and others to be damned by his Will he made salvation possible for all so we could choose life

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He didn’t come to save some he didn’t only call some to repentance he’s not willing tbat anyone perish but that all repent .

It sort of seems you’ve avoided the question again

Your position has been Its Gods faithfulness that saves us and it’s nothing to do with our choice or effort or deeds it’s just gods will gods faithfulness nothing we can do ect

My question is what about the unsaved ? Is that also Gods Will that had nothing to do with their actions also ?

If Gods faithfulness alone saves us his Will alone and it has nothing to do with what we actually choose and do. What about the poor lost souls wasnt God faithful enough to save them ?

They didn’t have a choice either because apparently bo one does lol so why is god telling us he’s going to judge every man impartially on his work ? Also How unfair is this since it was no new choice of fault but Gods ?


“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?( Gods leading them to repentance but they aren’t responding so Paul is warning them ) But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath ( by persisting they are heaping up wrath on themselves for the day of judgement ) against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of

God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems like he doesn’t have favorites anymore and he’s going to judge each soul on thier works that they chose to do doesn’t it ? How could he justly punish people who had no choice or Will of thier own ?

You have misunderstood and conflated some things I wrote. I never said God elected anyone to damnation. Man does that of his own volition. Second, my point about faithfulness had nothing to do with someone being saved. It was in reference to someone remaining saved. That is,when God begins a work in an individual, He continues it until the day of Jesus Christ...Philippians 1:6. And my point was that is the faithfulness of God, and not our personal striving that ensures our success in perseverance and not our own endeavor. This doesn't exclude our endeavor, rather it improves it.

“I never said God elected anyone to damnation. Man does that of his own volition. “

I’m not conflating brother I’m honestly not following your posts they seem to be going back and forth . My point was that if there’s an elect group for salvstion then there’s also an elect group for damnation right ? I mean if they aren’t in the elect group that’s unconditionally saved that means they weren’t chosen by God right ?

if not I’ll m just not understanding your logic of a man is saved by God alone being faithful then why aren’t all
Men saved ?

“Man does that of his own volition. “

So It sounds like we end up condemned because of our own choices and actions then ? I agree there fully that’s a biblical thought what it actually says God didn’t force them to reject the gospel and continued on in sin without repentance they did that of thier own volition he has provided salvstion for them also but they didn’t respond to it they of thoer own volition rejected him

“Second, my point about faithfulness had nothing to do with someone being saved. It was in reference to someone remaining saved. “

also the sentance you quoted from Philippians do you think it’s explained as you continue reading from Paul’s introduction what he means by tbat ?

Like a couple paragraphs later where he’s telling them thier role in tbier salvation ?


“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you think this is part of the process Paul’s explaining to them how Gods going to work it out ??? When he’s introducing his letter ?

brother I agree God does work in us to change how we think and what our desires are that’s so we can do our part . His work is to change a sinner to a child of God and it happens because we hear and believe the gospel that’s how God works since the beginning he speaks the truth and tells man believe

If we reject his word we’re rejecting the work he’s doing to save us

How do you think we stay saved then? Do you think God just zaps us and ⚡POW!⚡ We remain abiding in Him always? There are accounts of people in the Bible not doing that and the Bible also predicts a massive falling away from the faith in the last days. So that's not how it works.

And please don't say they were never saved. If God thinks that they were indeed saved and had fallen away, then we have to go with His definition, not ours. He knows their hearts better than we do.

Look at what the Lord Jesus said:

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

That yoke is to abide in Him. He says it's easy and the burden placed on us is light so that it is doable for us. Also note that we weren't meant to do it alone. He is with us under that yoke so that we can succeed in that small effort. He is the one who does all the hard work.

So really, just abide in Him and don't resist His work. It's not difficult. You will NOT fall away if you do this.


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Right. God has not elected anyone to damnation, yet He did elect some before the foundation of the world for salvation according to His purpose. Romans 8:28-30 tel us:
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

I don’t believe there’s such a thing as non-elect. Not everyone is Elect. Some of us have free will to choose Jesus upon hearing the Gospel and be saved and have eternal life. …and that is awesome! God desires for everyone—the whole wide world—to be saved. ….and still, not everyone will come.

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

And tbat is salvation stick with Jesus and the gospel and well be saved for sure

in order to accomplish this we have to guard our minds and hearts from satans doctrine that seeps into the worlds view and stick with Jesus and the gospel he gave to all for thier salvation

We have a charge and battle plan

“(for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; and having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭10:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The moment we become a disciple and follow that quote there from Matthew he spoke we’re going to be alright if we don’t turn away

God keeps us saved. Thats what eternal life is, Jesus said we will never die. and we have the seal of the spirit

1st. You can abide in Christ all you want, it will not save you, it also will not keep you saved.

Yes, the bible says in the last days their will be a falling away. We see it today, the churches are dying as we speak.

Again, You can not save yourself. and you can not keep yourself saved.

Eternal life is eternal not conditional.

Maybe we can look at the passage in context and nto assume we know what it means.

Yes. He is saying this to people who grew up trying to be saved by law. Telling them to take on his yoke, it is light.

So wjy would he contradict himself by makingn it so hard that you can actually fall away in effect. he will let you go.

Again, You abiding him is not payment for your sin. The penalty of sin is death. the gift of God is eternal life.

Don't turn the grace of God to legalism.. That would make us just as guilty as the jews.

More legalism. Its all about self. Do it yourself by your own power.

When will people realize, even when we try to do it by our own power we sin and fall short. meaning we are still guilty and still worthy of damnation.

A dog returns to his vomit because he is still a dog.

I stopped being a dog 40 some years ago. It does not mean I am perfect. it means i know my vomit (works) do not taste good. and can not eat it like it was chocolate pudding.. It makes me puke. where as a dog eats it daily and has no ill side affects. because he does not realise how bad it is.

There need be no election to damnation for there to be election to salvation. Man in his natural estate fits himself for destruction. He is born under the wrath of God. He is born dead in his trespasses and sins and already under condemnation
I think many believe as you do because it seems logical that if God chooses some to salvation, then He must also choose others to damnation. But it's not in scripture. What God does say is that as the Potter, He is sovereignly dealing with man as He pleases. So my point concerning election was simply to point out that election to salvation doesn't require election to condemnation.

Paul is simply telling them what perseverance looks like. He is not enumerating a sure-fire way to remain saved. In other words, in those God is preserving, you will expect certain behaviors. This, incidentally, is one way of making our calling and election sure.

How is abiding in Christ a work or legalism? Jesus Himself told us to take up the yoke with Him. To Him it isn't legalistic work. He even made it easy for us so that it is doable. What he said is for all people not just to people who "grew up trying to be saved by the law" as you had written.

You also wrote: "So wjy would he contradict himself by makingn it so hard that you can actually fall away in effect. he will let you go."

Jesus will never make the move to leave us. When we stop abiding in Him, it is US that have let Him go. NEVER blame God for this. This is why people who become apostate go to hell - it's because they've left Him, not the other way around.

You also wrote: "Eternal life is eternal not conditional."

I don't think you understand. Eternal life is in Jesus! If you leave Him, you no longer have that eternal life. That's why the Bible says you can have eternal life starting the very moment you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. It is in Jesus and abiding in Him is the only way to keep it.

I guess you're scared that you have to take a small part in your walk with Him. But God is love. He wants people who choose to love Him out of their own free will. Abiding in Him and not resisting His work, taking up the yoke with Him, is you choosing to love Him back for all the good He is doing in your life.


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If your doing it to be saved, it is works or legalism

If your doing it to become more Christlike. Then your not tryign to earn something, Your trying to be like someone, Thats a huge difference,.

Jesus Himself

Click to expand...

Yes, he told us to stop working, and start letting him change us.. His yoke is not heavy

Anything you do to try to save yourself is legalsim..Its called legalism because it is a legal system. It says you do this, I will pay you for that work by doing something for you (removing your sin debt)


Jesus said he would never let us go.. I am not blaming God. I am blaming this legalistic system that says we must live up to some standard or God will nto take us as his child.


If you can lose eternal life. You never had eternal life

read the words.. eternal or never ending
life, as apposed to death.

Jesus said, we we tust him, we will never perish (die) but have eternal life (live forever)

if we can still persh, or die. we never had eternal life. We had conditional life.

“There need be no election to damnation for there to be election to salvation.”

if you have ten cattle all headed to slaughter nd you elect five to save and live on your farm your choice of who to save has condemned the other five to slaughter. It’s a binary result of those you elected to be saved from the coming slaughter

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭

Every living soul is in that sinking boat every sinner is there in that group

here’s the ark sent to every creature everyone that’s condemned to death by sin

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;


but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is how the gospel is your chosen and invited to attend but will you choose to attend or will you reject his invite like so many of his elect have done to this result

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: ( clearly these are the chosen guests )

and they would not come.( they chose not to come to the wedding )

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( again tbey we’re invited guests but rejected it found other things more important in life to attend to )

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. ( they were his beloved and chosen from the beginning but niv tee to the kingdom but they responded s they did )

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God wills for all to attend it is an invite to which we need to respond he’s not going to come bind us and make us come if we don’t attend hell invite others who will attend so his house is filled with guests

🙂
alrighty well I sure hope god randomly elects me to be saved , I was thinking I needed to believe scripture and believe what he said about being saved phew!

I don't think you read anything I wrote!

Eternal life is in Jesus - it's not a separate thing. You can only have eternal life in Jesus. If you walk away from Him, you lose that life and the other benefits of salvation.

God has given all of us a free will and will never take that from us. He wants us to freely choose Him. And He wants us to have a real active relationship with Him. He doesn't want to zap us and make us robots that are programmed to love Him. Would you want your wife to be programmed to love you or have free will to choose to love you? I know some sickos would prefer to have their spouse programmed, but not God, that's for sure!

Just calling abiding in Christ a legalistic work doesn't make it as such. If God wants us to take up our yoke then it isn't a legalistic work. Otherwise He wouldn't tell us to do it.

I don't understand why you or other people would ignore the verses in the Bible that say a person can lose their salvation. God put those verses in there for a good reason - because they're true and can happen! With names mentioned to boot!

I don't think you should be so scared to accept that it can happen. You should focus more on the fact that many people have stay saved through the generations and that you will too. You can also pray for yourself and others that God helps us to stay with Him. That's what I do!


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The example you use is exactly as I said. You assume that 5 were chosen for death and 5 for life. But that isn't what happened. All were under a death sentence. But in grace, the farmer sovereignly chose 5 to be saved.

Does the farmer have the right to choose which cows get saved? Can he choose more or fewer? Does the farmer have any obligation to save any?
The answer is...the farmer can do as he chooses. They are his cows.
Likewise, all humanity is in God's hands. All humanity at birth is headed to the slaughterhouse. Can God choose to save some and not others? Can He save all? Can He save none? Should the cows get a say?

The last part of your post brings up another related issue: the condition of fallen man. While I do believe the gospel call is for all, I believe the response to that call is predicated upon one's spiritual condition. We can delve into this if you like.

You have done those things. I'm just saying you did so because God did a work of grace in you.

“I don't understand why you or other people would ignore the verses in the Bible that say a person can lose their salvation.”

“Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:2-5‬ ‭

“The example you use is exactly as I said. You assume that 5 were chosen for death and 5 for life. But that isn't what happened. All were under a death sentence. But in grace, the farmer sovereignly chose 5 to be saved.”

right there were ten cattle nd he o my chose 5 to save . What does that mean since he’s the soveriegn for those he didn’t choose

toy can’t acknolwedge he saved five by his choice and the other five had nothing to do with his choice he created all ten all ten were in the same boat l headed to slaughter but he chose only 5 to be saved.

The other five are by default chosen by the same soveriegn to be slaughtered

“The answer is...the farmer can do as he chooses. They are his cows.”

so we’re back to God chose some to save and others to be slaughtered right ? Yet the bible tells us no God Will is that all the cows be saved and not be slaughtered not tbat because they are his he declared some saved and others slaughtered

that’s my entire point the Bible tells us I’ve quoted several times Gods Will is that no one perish no cow be slaughtered , but your back to they are his cows if he wants to slaughter some and save some so be it ……

we already inow his Will is that no one is slaughtered but all live on the farm like green acres brother lol” greeen archers is the place to be farm living is the life for me do doot be doot”


weve been told clearly Gods not chosen some to save and others to slaughter because they are his cows he the farmer wants all of his cows to live he’s provided peters out the back gate d a bell is ringing em out to pasture but ….some of them even though the back gate is open just keep walking towards the slaughter house even with big red flaming signs saying

“ all cows return to pasture laughter house this way turn back we don’t eat steak here “

Your logic has lost me I’m relatively simple to me it seems like if I have ten cows all designated for slaughter and I elect only five of them to save from that then the other five are downed by my election of the others seems basic 10-5 equals 5 burgers walking