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Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#421
May 6, 2024
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#421
PaulThomson said:
The following is not reading scrioture for what it SAYS.

Foghorn said:
"let’s consider it for a moment.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
God only draws His elect. Judas wasn’t drawn because he was not an elect.
Also keep in mind, a verse consists of all the words in it, not just a select few. And context is extremely important."

What you are reding into the text is exactly what calvinism reads into it, but the text does not actually SAY.
Click to expand...
Consider post #415. That’s a good example of reading into the text.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#422
May 23, 2012
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#422
Foghorn said:
Let the verse speak for itself. Imo that’s a very misleading interpretation
Click to expand...


Can one neglect salvation that is Provided by Christ? FYI the Elect in Hebrews are the Hebrews, LOL, and they are in Romans, primarily the Jews. We are graphed in are we not? we are Adopted, are we not?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#423
May 23, 2012
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#423
Foghorn said:
Oh I assure you it is. i wonder, do you deny the biblical words, elect, predestination, God’s choosing, etc? 🤔
Click to expand...
Hmmm Context is important
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#424
Oct 29, 2023
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#424
Foghorn said:
This drawing, do you believe it is prevenient grace?
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Everything good God does for us is grace. Prevenient grace is not a thing different from grace. All good God does for a man before conversion is prevenient grace. But is is no different from postvenient grace. The Bible only mentions grace.
 
CS1

CS1

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#425
May 23, 2012
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#425
PaulThomson said:
Everything good God does for us is grace. Prevenient grace is not a thing different from grace. All good God does for a man before conversion is prevenient grace. But is is no different from postvenient grace. The Bible only mentions grace.
Click to expand...

LOL, just like those who like to say radical grace or hyper-grace. "Oh No, it's not grace; it's HYPER Grace, "which is better than Grace."


foolishness.
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#426
Oct 29, 2023
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#426
Foghorn said:
im agreeing with you. and SHEIN remember, you are not God

You can influence people but you can’t open their heart so they will accept. Big difference friend
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You are using the fallacy of special pleading. You are assuming that when scripture says God opens someone's mind to something He does it differently from the way we do, because God is different.
 
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PaulThomson

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#429
Oct 29, 2023
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#429
Foghorn said:
Oh I assure you it is. i wonder, do you deny the biblical words, elect, predestination, God’s choosing, etc? 🤔
Click to expand...
He likely denies the meaning calvinism gives to the words, but accepts the words with their biblical sense. I would say the same.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#430
May 21, 2022
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#430
PaulThomson said:
He likely denies the meaning calvinism gives to the words, but accepts the words with their biblical sense. I would say the same.
Click to expand...
His avatar is B. B. Warfield, I believe he adhered to the Westminster Confession (Calvinism).
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#431
Jul 3, 2015
60,186
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#431
selahsays said:
Why can’t you understand? I give up. :)
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I do understand that it is a contradiction to say people who are not elect can
choose to believe and then turn around and say all who believe are elect.

Why can't you understand? .:unsure::unsure::unsure:
 
Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#432
May 6, 2024
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#432
All those who are drawn believe.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10

If you're of God, you hear, if you're drawn, you come. It's that simple.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37.


A person is drawn because God opens their heart, ..... And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. Acts 16:14.
This woman is being drawn.

Not all are drawn, And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65. Its the Holy Spirit that is doing the drawing.

Judas is proof not all are drawn.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6.
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#433
Oct 29, 2023
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#433
Foghorn said:
All those who are drawn believe.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10

If you're of God, you hear, if you're drawn, you come. It's that simple.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37.


A person is drawn because God opens their heart, ..... And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. Acts 16:14.
This woman is being drawn.

Not all are drawn, And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65. Its the Holy Spirit that is doing the drawing.

Judas is proof not all are drawn.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6.
Click to expand...
What do you think your texts above prove?
 
Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#434
May 6, 2024
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christcentered.community.forum
#434
Foghorn said:
All those who are drawn believe.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10

If you're of God, you hear, if you're drawn, you come. It's that simple.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37.


A person is drawn because God opens their heart, ..... And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. Acts 16:14.
This woman is being drawn.

Not all are drawn, And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65. Its the Holy Spirit that is doing the drawing.

Judas is proof not all are drawn.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6.
Click to expand...
if Judas was drawn he would have been a believer.
 
Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#435
May 6, 2024
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christcentered.community.forum
#435
PaulThomson said:
What do you think your texts above prove?
Click to expand...
To you? Nothing.

I have noticed there are a few people who won't even consider someone else's posts. Those who really do not know much about scripture, those who are afraid. those who are challenged and just can't handle it and those who are in denial.


But that's okay.

God has no problem revealing His truth to whom He chooses. He does not need me to do it.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#437
Jul 3, 2015
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#437
Foghorn said:
Judas is proof not all are drawn.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6.
Click to expand...
I know some do believe that Judas was saved and then lost his salvation. I am not among them .:)

I do not believe he was ever saved at all. Jesus also said Judas was unclean, and call him
the son of perdition = one doomed to destruction. That cannot be said of any believer.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#438
Jul 18, 2017
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#438
CS1 said:
Salvation is a Supernatural Gift; therefore, Human reasoning, rationality, and secular understanding can't make sense of it, no more than they can fully know God's Divine Nature.
Click to expand...
The point is not "making sense of it". But all can understand what we must do in response to the offer of eternal life by God.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#439
Oct 29, 2023
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#439
Foghorn said:
To you? Nothing.

I have noticed there are a few people who won't even consider someone else's posts. Those who really do not know much about scripture, those who are afraid. those who are challenged and just can't handle it and those who are in denial.


But that's okay.

God has no problem revealing His truth to whom He chooses. He does not need me to do it.
Click to expand...
What use is simply citing texts without explaining what you think they mean. It is obvious from these forums that people often see different things in the same text. So, what do you understand each of those texts to be saying. And how does what they are saying lead you to the conclusion you draw from them.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#440
Oct 29, 2023
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#440
Magenta said:
I know some do believe that Judas was saved and then lost his salvation. I am not among them .:)

I do not believe he was ever saved at all. Jesus also said Judas was unclean, and call him
the son of perdition = one doomed to destruction. That cannot be said of any believer.
Click to expand...
What makes you think that coming to Jesus equates to being saved. Is that how we use the expression "coming to". If I come to India, does that mean I put my trust in India?
 
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