God and Time

Yes, i agree with you here and yes i realize that most people (myself included) don't read what's been said in a topic already but i am with you here.
I don't think Time is eternal, and most of science thinks that Time is not eternal either.
The person who created this topic thinks that Time is eternal though.
At the end of the day nobody knows, but best guess according to science and logic is that Time is not eternal. Time was created at Creation.

I believe that our concept of TIME is probably different to God's TIME: i.e. REAL TIME!

For example, Einstein reckoned that all TIME in the Universe was governed by the speed of light, but then he wasn't a Christian.

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor
crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yes this comes also into and from the theory of evolution . And hearkens back to the bangalang theory . By measuring the speed of light , man can then measure how long ago the most distant stars we can see the light from existed

but you have to first accept that the bang is the beginning then by measuring the distance by light they think they know how old the universe is because they concluded it began with a boom and not like genesis speaks it

Yes that’s all I was saying ,and I was really never coming against you I tried to be funny originally but forget that in text it doesn’t always translate I do apologize if you felt like I was disparaging your post just inappropriate humor

if you think about what most science says about creation wouldnt time sort of be eternal ? And sort of the force that actually created everything would be time and space ?

It’s just my own odd way of thinking I suppose friend . Because of the theories of how for instance over billions of years of random collisions and explosions of dying stars remnants of the bang that ended up forming the solar system and everything it’s sort of just time and random chaos that gets the glory

But it’s just my own way of thinking lol probably 50.50 on right and wrong so lol take some salt with my opinion

An interesting philosophical concept to consider is the notion of God’s relationship to time. Many Christian are quick to claim that God is not subject to time. This view is known as atemporalism. At first glance, this view seems sound as it affirms God’s immutability, highlights God’s omniscience and seeks to exalt God as one who sits over the constraints of time.

However, there are some serious concerns with this view. First, if this view is correct, God exists in a constant state of stasis. Everything would be a frozen present to God. Thus, creation, redemption and recreation would all be simultaneous events for God. In fact, it would call into question the very concept of God creating the world ex nihilo. For, how could God create the universe which had not previously existed if, for God, there could never be a first moment of creation. Second, the biblical notion that God became flesh would also be called into question as, there would never be a moment for God when God was not Jesus of Nazareth. Finally, this notion would cause us to reconsider God’s interactions with humanity we see in Scripture that is replete with warnings, answered prayers, forgiveness, anger, love and other acts which indicate God is responding and interacting with humanity based on human actions in time. This view is also popular among Calvinists as they use this philosophical notion as justification for God‘s predetermination of the elect and damned based on his sovereign declaration rather than human response. It would only make sense that if everything is a frozen constant to God, then the moment of creation would also be the moment of salvation. God knowing everything prior to creation would have created the world in such a way as to have predetermined all outcomes.

A second view on God‘s relationship with time is temporalism. This view suggests that God exists in time. In the same way humans are subject to time, so is God. Yet for God, his past is infinite as well as his future. In some ways, this fits many of the Biblical descriptions of God’s interaction with time as he is referred to as one who is “from everlasting to everlasting,” “the first and the last,“ and “before all time and now and forever“ (Jude 25). This is not to say that God is subject to time, as if he is inferior to time itself. Rather, that time is part of God’s essence or being. Theologians from this view hold a range of different theological positions from Reformed theologians, Arminians and openness theologians.

A third view would argue that God is metatemporal. Similar to the temporal view, this view claims that God does exist in time. However, God does stand outside the human timeline. This view holds that there is created time and uncreated time. God stands outside the created timeline of the universe he made, but still exists in his own time which is part of his very essence. Thus, God does interact with humanity based on the flow of time and God, himself, along with his thoughts and actions do have a past, present and future. So the encounters with humanity along time are not merely anthropomorphic as atemporalists would argue, but are genuine responses to past and present actions.

What are your thoughts about God and time? I am interesting in discussing your thoughts and their implications on how we understand the teachings of Scripture.

I totally agree with you!

Hebrews 13:14

How can we be with Him if there is no time to BE in; and no space within which to be WITH Him?

Did someone deny that the spiritual realm exists? I think some of us are denying that the spiritual realm needs to be timeless and spaceless, and scripture, in fact, describes it as experiencing sequential events (i.e. as temporal) and having length, breadth, height and depth (i.e. as spatial).

An interesting philosophical concept to consider is the notion of God’s relationship to time. Many Christian are quick to claim that God is not subject to time. This view is known as atemporalism. At first glance, this view seems sound as it affirms God’s immutability, highlights God’s omniscience and seeks to exalt God as one who sits over the constraints of time.

However, there are some serious concerns with this view. First, if this view is correct, God exists in a constant state of stasis. Everything would be a frozen present to God. Thus, creation, redemption and recreation would all be simultaneous events for God. In fact, it would call into question the very concept of God creating the world ex nihilo. For, how could God create the universe which had not previously existed if, for God, there could never be a first moment of creation. Second, the biblical notion that God became flesh would also be called into question as, there would never be a moment for God when God was not Jesus of Nazareth. Finally, this notion would cause us to reconsider God’s interactions with humanity we see in Scripture that is replete with warnings, answered prayers, forgiveness, anger, love and other acts which indicate God is responding and interacting with humanity based on human actions in time. This view is also popular among Calvinists as they use this philosophical notion as justification for God‘s predetermination of the elect and damned based on his sovereign declaration rather than human response. It would only make sense that if everything is a frozen constant to God, then the moment of creation would also be the moment of salvation. God knowing everything prior to creation would have created the world in such a way as to have predetermined all outcomes.

A second view on God‘s relationship with time is temporalism. This view suggests that God exists in time. In the same way humans are subject to time, so is God. Yet for God, his past is infinite as well as his future. In some ways, this fits many of the Biblical descriptions of God’s interaction with time as he is referred to as one who is “from everlasting to everlasting,” “the first and the last,“ and “before all time and now and forever“ (Jude 25). This is not to say that God is subject to time, as if he is inferior to time itself. Rather, that time is part of God’s essence or being. Theologians from this view hold a range of different theological positions from Reformed theologians, Arminians and openness theologians.

A third view would argue that God is metatemporal. Similar to the temporal view, this view claims that God does exist in time. However, God does stand outside the human timeline. This view holds that there is created time and uncreated time. God stands outside the created timeline of the universe he made, but still exists in his own time which is part of his very essence. Thus, God does interact with humanity based on the flow of time and God, himself, along with his thoughts and actions do have a past, present and future. So the encounters with humanity along time are not merely anthropomorphic as atemporalists would argue, but are genuine responses to past and present actions.

What are your thoughts about God and time? I am interesting in discussing your thoughts and their implications on how we understand the teachings of Scripture.

I don't know if you're reading someone else's points here because it seems to me that you're new at this but it's a fun subject nonetheless.

The "Challanges" that you posted are ideas that you have in your mind so they're your challenges not my challenges.
Because again you're missing the point of the fish-bowl where we will have concepts and language barriers when trying to describe anything outside of our own experience in this universe.

I don't know if you've studied this enough to consider the following:

* What we perceive as "Time" may not be time at all. We are biological beings and the whole universe is in a constant state of change. This change may be perceived as time for us for many practical reasons including survival.
* If time does truly exist and flows like a river, you still have no idea what kind of physics you're dealing with outside of this universe to even call a concept like Time and label it "Time" as we experience it. So you need new language, concepts and physics.

So if we can't understand what Time is, how can you even ask a question about a frozen Creator interacting with a moving object like us? Especially since the Creator created what we perceive as time.
Have you really looked into the concept of time at all? Because i have seen several documentaries by very bright physicist and no one has any idea what Time is.

Where is heaven?

When God created time...

... it had a beginning and will have an end.

it [time] runs on a straight line, going forward.

According to the scriptures, God can and does operate in the created time frame and outside of it. Multi dimensional?
For a thousand years in your sight
are but as yesterday when it is past,
or as a watch in the night. Psalm 90:4.

When God created the heavens, the earth, and time, He was operating in a dimension beyond our capabilities to detect.

At any instance of time in our world is infinite time to God. This is why He can hear millions and millions of prayers at one time.

According to scripture, God is not a being who is limited to a single dimension of time but perhaps multiple,

it's obvious He operates in a dimension(s) well beyond our capability to detect or comprehend. I believe God can choose to operate along multiple timelines.


“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors
when it burst out from the womb,
9 when I made clouds its garment
and thick darkness its swaddling band,
10 and prescribed limits for it
and set bars and doors,
11 and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther,
and here shall your proud waves be stayed’? Job 38.

You are assuming the creation of time again. Can we not detect the vacuum between dust particles in space? Can we not detect/postulate distinct space-time continua existing contemporaneously and some kind of emptiness or medium between them? Have theoretical physicists not concluded there need to be ten dimensions to account for detected phenomena.
If God can operate in different dimensions, time would have no effect on Him, nor would it be a frozen constant. God must be a Being who is not limited to a single dimension of time.

It's not very fun when we are repeating the same things over and over.
Nobody knows what Time is at the fundamental level of reality.
The general consensus is that Time+Space was created at the beginning, so we can't really say that Time existed before and we will never have any evidence for that.
Also, despite our best understanding of physics now, we can't say for sure if Time is real or if we've made it up in our minds.

What is time? | Live Science

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Carroll is a vocal atheist who has debated with Christian apologists such as Dinesh D'Souza and William Lane Craig.
Sean M. Carroll - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Sean_M._Carroll

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Sean M. Carroll has no fear of God. But you are leaning on his wisdom?

Paul, let’s just have some coffee instead.