The 'ELECT' vs 'Free-Choice'

1, The Mary thread is not my thread. I did not start it and you jumped to conclusions

2. I did start this thread to discuss what some seem to believe regarding salvation. I do not believe there are 2 classes of believer and I do not support that belief.

I can't help what other people say or believe. However, I would expect a person might read the op if they want to participate in a thread and that goes for any thread started by anyone.

Again, you want to know where I am coming from? READ the op regarding the topic which does not cover who I am, what I think or believe or anything other than the actual topic. This is a 53 page thread and at least half of it is nonsense posted by someone who is now banned.

And again, I do not agree with the some are elect and some have free choice. That is nonsense.

Thank you

Or garbage, as Burn1986 said in post #1060.

so throw it out then! right?

lol, I picked it up while frequenting the live chat, from a similarly minded individual who luuuuvs everybody but had a strange way of showing it.

Okay, it’s not garbage. It’s just people come on here looking for some sort of direction or fellowship, and all they see are these goofy arguments about stuff that simply doesn’t matter.

Salvation key understanding....


Was Jesus omniscient when he came to earth?

Yes?

No?

Did he make himself to be as a man, as one of us... but without sin?

Yes?

No?

There is a key to understanding how he was able to do that...

He is now God. Just keep that in mind.

is that why you are here?

I would like to remind you of what you said here:

you called it garbage yourself

this particular forum is called the Bible Discussion Forum so that is what goes on in here. what you might think does not matter, might be major issues for others, so, perhaps try another place in the forum

perhaps you might do better in the chat or miscellaneous

Yeah so? Are trying to “get me”? Seriously? You almost sounded mature(ish), and then you try and do some kind of weird “Yeah but you said…Look, here’s your words. Got you man!” Dude, how old are you? Are you on your mom and dad’s computer?

Oh dear. feel better? obnoxius as well as thick

just gonna find that ignore button....and there ya go.

somehow I knew we were heading that way.

Did you not read where I said “Okay, it’s not garbage.” I even acknowledged that I was presumptuous and did not read all of your posts. Then you kind of attacked me. Did you read these out of order?

Stop it...
He did get you!

Its you who are now acting like a kid when you react with stuff like that.

Besides.... Nothing wrong with being a kid.
Unless its passed the time to stop thinking like one.



Maybe, you just need more time.

Keep in mind...




grace and peace ...............

pander much?

listen dude

no one attacked you

if you really are that unaware of what you say and then go postal when someone innocently points it out, then this may be a place that somehow 'triggers' you

no one can help that but you

I know I do not wish to converse with you. so there's that too

I pander only as much as you can bear....

haha

great play on words

But to believe, you need God's free gift of the new birth.

You/we need "grace" to be saved.

Why?

If our flesh were allowed to have its normal say? No one could believe.
For our soul was a slave to the sin nature.

Grace stomps on the influence of the flesh...
And, while holding it down?
Tells our soul (which has been made free of the flesh) to decide what it wants to believe.

That is why all who refused to believe will be held ACCOUNTABLE..

If the unbeliever had no choice made available?
God would have been weird and unjust to condemn what He made turn out to be inevitable..

Some have no sense of justice, and God wants us to learn.
Things like Calvinism bait those walking in human reasoning as to bring them out and expose them,
to make apparent what God wants to deal with in their hearts.

Some see the need for justice and remove themselves from what they were programmed to believe.
Others, trod on and are led to the slaughter of their rewards they could have had and God wanted to give them.

Note, please.
When the Lord evaluates all believers.
Some will be found to have followed false teachings (wood, hay, and straw).
Their works will be incinerated as destroyed! They will be shamed before the Lord.
Yet? They still remain saved from the Lake of Fire.
Saved as a person running from a burning house is saved....



The carnal believer will suffer a total loss of Eternal rewards. .
Yet, not lose his salvatuion!
Yet... Jesus will lose none of all the Father gives Him!





grace and peace ............

That's conversion before belief which is not supported by numerous verses in the book of John plus other references such as being justified by faith in Romans.

You gotta be led by Jesus to believe.. but not converted before belief.