The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?

For all here who refuse the law do refuse ho hear the following fron the son of GOD?;
Mat 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.
Mat 5:18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

If you refuse the law you make Jesus a liar.
You judge me without knowing me, it is written not to judge. You cannot reply to my last post to you, asking you to prove that the law was abolished, so instead, you denigrate me and others with false accusations because you refuse to do your due diligence and search for the truth provided by scripture. If you verify all i wrote against scripture you will find I am correct and truthful. if you refuse the truth, it is on you.

Another proof for you;

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4 If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him:
1Jn 2:6 Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

I tell you in truth and friendship Jesus is the only way to eternal life!

Yeah....
You aren't supposed to prove my points...especially when on the opposite side of them...but whatever

i dont know bout all this I was just testing this out to see if it still holds valid and I think it really does

“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s a waste of time for me to even attempt to explain anything Paul does and you can’t accept it

you can’t acknolwedge anything even that God plainly said he was going to make another different covenant with them from the first . It’s repetetively shown but you can’t see it

I’m dizzy from all the twirling and dodging

I already went through the covenant here https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ll-soon-disappear.214968/page-25#post-5302202 and here https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ll-soon-disappear.214968/page-22#post-5301959

I asked you twice to explain the law that defines sin, which can’t be the same law that was added because of sin and received a similar answer as to the one in this post. So I will provide a few references for your consideration.

All of the NT writers point to the Ten Commandments to define sin….perhaps its not me that can’t accept the answers.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Which law?
Paul answer this…

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

And James

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

And Jesus: Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Where do we find these laws? Only in the Ten - you can see for yourself in Exodus 20. No wonder why Jesus warned us not to break or teach others to break the least of these as one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30

So what law was added because of sin?

Lev 6:25 Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.

So then, the law that was added because of Transgression, until the Seed shall come, was not the Ten Commandments, but was the sacrificial system. God's people keep God’s commandments all throughout scripture and is His instructions for righteousness and to do well, and were not "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham. Cain knew it was “sin” to kill Abel because He knew God’s commandments because without law there is no sin and sin is the breaking of God’s law, the Ten Commandments.


Anyway, you take care, once again thank you for the chat and hope you consider the scriptures in prayer.

Hey all, new here... just appreciating the insight, so much of what people believe, is not based on contextual scripture or study of... how often things may be taken out of context and all, consider this to, how often do people open a bible with their idea already in mind and are simply seeking to validate it, of course, they may have to ignore a few passages they come across until they find one they can use to support their idea... but it happens, it makes a lot of bad scientists, you know, propose a hypothesis, then work it out to see if it's true or not, but instead many propose the hypothesis and try to find what makes it true (ignoring the rest); This approach to scripture isn't helpful. Of course approaching scripture with any filter won't help (i've done it, still learning to read the bible free of such things) and it's so helpful. And let's not forget, most english works don't do a lot of the bible justice, so it takes some work; Not everyone is interested. I share a similar concern, many professed christians wouldn't know enough bible to stand up to certain challenges, most only know their religious ideal, unsure if it's even biblical, but boy, do they stand by it; Imagine offending a believer, by simply reading them a bible verse! None the less, thank you for sharing what you did.

If we first are conviced the most Inportant thing God will ever have to say to us is something he said to an ancient people who ended up cursed well never be able to accept the lord
Yes you went through it all . It you never did address the New Testament apostles and what they said I’m more of a believer of what they said and explained about Jesus being the way for salvstion and not what Moses was given for Israel

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭

Do you want to talk about this ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i don’t want to talk about this

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

Id rather talk about what Jesus was preaching but you keep returning to the same thing lol even finding what he’s telling them under the law and insisting it’s for those who aren’t it’s near impossible for me honestly I think it’s just wasting your time and mine at this point

maybe another subject sometime

I also believe that until people can distinguish between these two laws they will constantly miss use, twist the scriptures....

The moral law does not save use, it guides us to Jesus and Jesus saves us.

Rom 3:30-31
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

By faith we establish the law.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Allow Jesus to write them on your heart.

And thank you for sharing.

What you wrote above: that happens every day in every Christian forum. It is simply unbelievable. Recently I made two direct quotes from the KJV and was told that the phrases were "jargon." Turns out that the KJV was this persons preferred translation. Holy cow . . . I mean, where do you even begin with such a mess?

No one is a winner at Christian forums.

Jesus often emphasized the underlying principles of the Ten Commandments in his teachings, highlighting their enduring significance for guiding human behavior and relationships.

Throughout his ministry, Jesus reiterated the fundamental importance of the commandments, indicating their timeless relevance in guiding moral conduct and fostering a harmonious society. In Matthew 5:21-48, commonly referred to as the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus delves into the deeper meaning of the commandments, emphasizing that they extend beyond mere external actions to encompass attitudes and intentions of the heart. For instance, he equates anger with murder and lust with adultery, urging his followers to strive for righteousness in thought as well as deed. By doing so, Jesus underscores the enduring relevance of the moral principles embodied in the Ten Commandments, encouraging his listeners to embrace a life characterized by love, integrity, and reverence for God. In essence, Jesus not only reaffirmed the commandments but also elevated them, revealing their spiritual essence and calling his disciples to embody their transformative power in their daily lives.

Regarding Jesus affirming the importance of following the commandments:

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said to a man who asked what good deed he must do to have eternal life, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
In John 14:15, Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."
In Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus emphasized the importance of the commandments, stating that he did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets but to fulfill them, and that whoever relaxes even the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
In Matthew 22:37-40 - Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
In John 15:10 - Jesus said, "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love."

Regarding Jesus' position towards non-believers:

In Mark 16:16, Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
In John 3:18, Jesus said, "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
In John 3:36, it is written, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
In John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Sorry you are not making sense. I previously asked you what these verses mean, you quote them but won't let me know what they mean or how they discredit the teachings of Jesus. You say in one breath you' rather talk about what Jesus was preaching yet every turn you try to take out of context scripture of Paul to discredit the teachings of Jesus such as Mat 5:17-30, Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14 Mat 19:17-19 and even Paul's teachings such as 1 Cor 7:19 Rom 7:12 Rom 3:31 because Paul never taught another gospel than Jesus. Paul has a warning in scripture for a very good reason 2 Peter 3:16 which is why we should reconcile Paul's teachings to Jesus. we are saved by faith in Jesus, not saved by faith in Paul. I love Paul's teaching but when people use these as a weapon against the teachings of Jesus people really do twist to their own destruction as they do the rest of scripture. The warning wouldn't be in the bible unless it was a serious issue for many people. Jesus is the way, the only way.

Lets go through this scripture since you brought it up twice....

Luke 16:16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

Law and Prophets means God's Word, the scriptures. So the scriptures were until John, not that they ended at John, or the law ended at John but what happened with John. Jesus did who first started His peaching and what did He preach?

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Repent from what? Sin. Sin has been the disease of humans since the beginning. Jesus is our Great Physician and what did He come to save us from? He came to save us from sin. Mat 1:21

What is sin? It is breaking any of the Ten Commandments 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

Who do you think wants people to be saved in sin to continue in it where there remains no more sacrifice? Heb 10:26-30
The devil 1 John 3:8 who deceives the whole world.

So when we claim the Ten Commanemtns ended, the law that shows us our sin Rom 7:7 Rom 3:20, the law that is God's standard of right and wrongdoing- His righteousness Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142 it puts one in a bad spot come Judgement Day. Because we must confess and forsake our sin Pro 28:13 to be covered by His mercy, grace and sanctification. The Ten Commandments written by the finger of God because He did not leave it up to man to write His holy, perfect, righteous and unchanging law, which sits under His mercy seat that is in heaven Rev 11:19 If we remove one dot or tittle from His holy law, we are not covered under His mercy. If one would only think about it logically- does God ever want us to worship other gods? bow to images? covet, steal, murder etc? It's a matter of doing our will over God's will. Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

§ Galatians 4:22-31 . . . N.L.T. – “The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God's promise. But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God's own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God's two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them. And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery to the law. But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother. As Isaiah said, "Rejoice, O childless woman, you who have never given birth! Break into a joyful shout, you who have never been in labor! For the desolate woman now has more children than the woman who lives with her husband!" And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit. But what do the Scriptures say about that? "Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman's son." So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman.”

OK, what are we talking about? We are talking about the Law and how people are set free because of the Promises and Blessings of Christ. So, in the above Scripture, who is considered free? Sarah is considered free because Isaac was born not by following a written Law, not by human effort, but by the Promise of God. Yes, Isaac was also born of Immaculate conception by the Power of the Spirit. Conversely, who is not free? Who is considered the slave? That would be Hagar, for her children live in slavery to the Law, for if they do not follow it, they will be cut off from God and likely destroyed.

But there is more. Paul also shows us how those who the Law enslaved would persecute those who were free of the Law. Ishmael, born by human effort when Abraham physically bore a child through Hagar, those enslaved by the Law, began persecuting those born of the Promise. And this is what we have witnessed play out in the Gospels, as Jesus was persecuted by those enslaved to the Law, the rulers and authorities of Israel. And we still see this persecution going on, and it will continue throughout Scripture. Those enslaved by the Law will attempt to eliminate those who oppose it. Paul concludes this thought by reminding all readers who claim the title of Christian, that we do not belong to those of Hagar and Ishmael, but of Sarah and Isaac.

Yes, until people understand the law that is holy, righteous, perfect, unchanging and is a reflection of the character of God who we are to take on His character or image, compared to the law that was added because of transgression which Christ did not desire Mat 9:13 that was placed outside the ark of the covenant held as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 that was contrary and against. It will make all the scriptures in contradiction to Jesus and the apostles, and nothing will reconcile.

The commandments that God blessed, that is holy and righteous will never become contrary or against. Only God can reverse His blessing Num 23:20 and our ways are not above His ways. Hence why not a jot or tittle can pass from His law and all will not be fulfilled until Jesus comes and why we have this verse as one of the last verses until the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Hello Sbbathblessing, As a fervent follower of Christ, at this point to continue is pointless, remember what Christ said in Mat 7:6 Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

This is where I am at this point. the reason for this Jesus explained also in Mat 13:15 For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’

Christ also said. in Mat 10:14 And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.

Sadly, I will not be back on this thread, I did everything I could.

Peace be upon you.

Hey there friend,

I'm happy to take a stab at this from my understanding of what this means.

Abram had no children with Sarah. Abram is now about eighty-five years old, Sarah is seventy-five and feeling hopeless about conceiving a child. The were promised Abraham was going to be the Father of all Nations.

Sarah instead of trusting in God went to her maidservants to pick out one to bear Abram a child. She took Hagar her maid to bear a child for Abrah. You can read about it Genesis 16

Ishmael was born by the God's doing, by the Promise.

This is contrasting trusting in the flesh, our works instead of trusting in the Spirit- God's works.

The Ten Commandments are God's works
Exo 32:16 The tablets were the work of God; the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets.
Our works are when we trust in our version of right-doing instead of submitting to God's righteousness.

Thats what I believe this passage is referring to, the short version. We need to place all of our faith in God and allow Him to lead us through His Word. Jesus became the WORD and showed us the example to follow. Take Him by the hand and allow Him to lead us on the narrow path. Nothing Jesus taught or did for our example to follow will lead us down the wrong path, but when we trust in ourselves and our works is where things can go bad fast.

Thank you, friend, I was having the same impression. I was hoping to find the delete button, but it was after the 5 minutes.

All we can do is plant seeds and pray to God.

God bless!

"The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise."

Our inheritance in Christ depends upon the promise given by God to Abraham. That promise was given to Abraham 430 years BEFORE the law.

This is the ministry of reconciliation: that we are, in Christ, brought back to that original place of receiving the promise by faith. It is written:

"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness".

This next part is important: God spoke to Abraham THEN Abraham believed.

This is the order of all who are sons of God: God speaks to your spirits THEN you believe. The order of God speaking and we (who are in Christ) believing is the same for us as it was for Abraham. In fact, this is the same order displayed between Christ and God. The standard of righteousness of Christ is the same standard of sons: they do what their Father is doing.

The ministry of reconciliation does not take us back to a time after the law was given because of evil: it takes us back to a time before the world was made!

"He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

And just after that:

"And He is the head of the body, the church, Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence."

The wages of sin is what?

Death!

Christ is the firstborn from what?

Death!

You mean there are others who are raised from the dead?

Yes! All who believe in Him!

"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Do you now see the connection? We enter into the promises of God through belief.

This is why a person must die to him/herself to receive the promise. If they don't die, their flesh is still subject to the law which rules over all men who live according to the flesh.

This is the "..law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" It goes something like this: In Christ we died to the law of sin and death because the law is only active over a man who is still alive.

And what happens to "we who are dead in Christ"?

"And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."

We are raised to life by the same Spirit that was Christ, was with God, was God, from the beginning of time.

He. Is. In. Us.

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

And how do we live?

By faith.

By grace.

"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Do you know what is amusing about these Seventh Day Adventists? By their own doctrine, they admit they are still alive to the Law of sin and death.

Their standard is "give God 1/7th of your life". By this, they are loudly claiming "It is still my life to give".

No. If we are in Him then any life we have is from God who gave it. All our life is His. If we divide our life into "what I do" and "what God wants me to do" we are not dead in Christ. This is why Paul admonishes us to "reckon ourselves dead to sin"

"For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

All of our lives are His because He gave it to us. We rest in Him each and every day, not just one day a week. The standard for those in Christ is actually greater than the standard of the Adventist: they only give Him one day. We who are dead in Christ, realize we have nothing to give Him that is not His already. We give Him all because He is all we have.

Be reconciled to God through the death of Jesus and the resurrection of Christ, the Life-giving Spirit.

For the record that is not what SDA's believe.

We believe we should worship God everyday- He should be the center of our lives daily. But when we dedicate our lives to Christ, does that mean we should obey His commandments or disobey. God commanded us to work 6 days and rest on the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:8-11 to follow the example of Himself Gen 2:1-3 as we are made in His image to follow Him. Gen 1:26 God cares about our needs, and we need both physical rest from work and spiritual rest in Christ which is what the Sabbath provides. A full 24/7 to rest and focus on honoring Him God Isa 58:13 to join ourselves to Christ Isa 56:1-6 so He can sanctify us Eze 20:12 because we can't sanctify ourselves we need God and it shows we are one of God's people Eze 20:20. When we choose another day for primary worship, one that is not blessed, sanctified by God or made holy by God it is depending on our own works instead of God's Exo 32:16

While we are not justified by the law, we are justified by faith and why God's faithful keep His commandments Rev 14:12, not to be saved but because one is saved. A complete faith in Jesus to not only hear, but to do what He asks. Just like Abraham Gen 26:5

All the personal attacks are more blessings than anything- it was predicted the commandment-keeping people would be Rev 12:17.

Thanks for sharing. At first glance, meaning that I have not looked at multiple translations, what I [see] above is that you took the word "were" and turned it into "are" (the Works of God). To start, that's a problem.

The Works of God that Christians need to be aware of are as follows:
1) Spiritual Circumcision, the cutting away of the Sinful Nature
2) Repentance - True Repentance is a gift from God and it does not fail
3) Holy Spirit - The sending of the Spirit is also a Work of Christ.
4) Jesus's Work upon the cross, which begins as a physical Work, yet converts to a Spiritual Work. Those who believe in the Life, death, and Resurrection, also believing in the Power that raised Him from the Dead, it is these Works and NONE other that makes a person Right with the Lord.

Nothing else. There is no ritual. There is no writing of any worldly kind. There is nothing other that the Works of our Powerful, Almighty God who creates Salvation within His Elect.

Unfortunately, that's all I have time for.

Second Winners Ribbon from me!

People really ought to spend significant time figuring out Matthew 1:1, the geneaology of Christ. It is as follows: Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham.

Why Abraham? Why these three? Why is Abraham our Father of Faith? And why does the Lord keep cramming this concept of circumcision into our minds? Is He some kind of creep, or is there . . . PERHAPS . . . a deeper meaning to this most Holy Doctrine?