Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

Calmador said:
One of my biggest qualms with a common Calvinist line of thinking is that Faith is a work

Have you never heard Calvinists support their Total Depravity petal by arguing that regeneration must precede faith because the natural mqn is totally depraved and cannot believe unto salvation, So you must be regenerated first and given Christ's faith to believe unto salvation. And if you believed before regeneration you would be doing something to be saved and your own faith would be a work of your own that saves you. You would be claiming to save yourself and be stealing glory from God.

Have you never argued like that yourself?

I answered but you have never experienced God as I have so what I post is foreign to you.

Being what I am naturally by birth and how I was taught in Mishnah to begin with the Torah, then the Prophets, and finally the Psalms. I read the New Testament the same way from Matthew to Revelation. So by the time I got to the end I already knew everything between from the beginning.

More so to God's Mercy because God knew we were going to be sinners when Jesus was Elected before the foundation of the world to bring a sacrifice to our sins. We did not get what we deserved, which is Mercy, but got what we now have by the Act of Grace upon the Cross.

You are inaccurately stating reformed doctrine. Nice strawman you built there. Shame if anything happened to it.

Everyone needs to hear this....especially @maxamir

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Stephen A. Chronister
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2 Peter 3:9; 2 Samuel 6:1-15
SERIES: The Book of Joel

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Genesis 3; Luke 22:39-46
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John 17:11-12; Luke 22:39-46
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John 8:31-36; Matthew 26:36-39
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Jeremiah 19:5; Job 1:8-12
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What Are We To Overcome? If there’s Predestination, How much evil does God have?
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Jeremiah 19:4-5; Job 1:6
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So, there are a lot of calvinists inaccurately stating reformed doctrine to defend LOUPI.

This is not towards everyone who promotes the Reformed doctrine but I think we can clearly see the 5 to 7 specific Reformers on this forum that this will testify about. But what is it do they promote? 5 doctrines of Grace. But are any of them showing Grace to the world? When you claim God is Grace while simultaneously promoting that God is purposefully sending more than 80% of His Own Offspring to an eternal Hell that never ends it makes me wonder do they know what Grace is about? It is by far the most cretinous idealism for a doctrine that has ever been formatted and there's some seriously stupid definitions for the character of God out there.

Jesus said to be a Follower of Him is to be like Him.

If a person proclaims 5 doctrines of Grace one would expect to be seeing the most gracious person on planet Earth.

But you only see actions that David described as demonic.

You truly have to be born into this doctrine because I have asked people to VOLUNTEER and JOIN it and they reply if they want to act like the world they would go back to being what they were before Jesus changed them.

I am a Jew, who come from the Jews who denied Jesus, and I do not understand the Reformed at all. It's as if they are trying to be JEWS!

There sure are. Scary really. And ignorant.

Just a thought:
The "bad" Pharisees may have thought that works saves them. They may have thought that physical circumcision saves them. They may have thought that being the physical offspring of Abraham saves them.

But these are IMO merely incidental to the underlying reality:
They essentially thought that they were FOREORDAINED/PREDESTINED to salvation. Really, that is what is going on behind the scenes here.

God, Jesus, John and Paul say otherwise.

Mat 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Luk 4:25
But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
Luk 4:28
And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
Luk 4:29
And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.


Rom 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Heb 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Rom 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Not likely. It's more likely that you're hearing what you want to hear.

Election in the case of delivering the divine promise is very different to an election to salvation.

Some folk would have us believe that Abraham was the only elect person, in his generation.

They also quote the following.

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

The verse is not about individual election for salvation.

In the given context of Romans 2 to Romans 11, Jacob represents God's promise, by faith.
And Esau represents humanity (the Jews) striving for self righteousness through works.

Context matters in the letter to the Romans.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace (Jacob), it is no longer on the basis of works (Esau), since otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Paul is not teaching individual election in Romans 9:13, far from it.

Which is exactly what Paul revealed to us in the letter to the Romans.

Calvinism suffers a catastrophic failure when it quotes from the letter to the Romans.

Paul is teaching that Israel failed, grafted out, for not understanding the promise that was through grace.

Paul is not teaching the sovereignty of God over election to salvation, in the letter to the Romans.

How can folk in the 21st Century fail to understand what Paul is telling us in Romans?

Romans 11:31-32
However, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they
did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

Here is what you stated.

"Scripture needs to always be taken in its immediate and overall context"

So why do you cherry pick verses from the letter to the Romans. Then interpret these verses
to support your theology of Calvinism.

For example, read the verse below.

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

Talk about ignoring the context.

Here is the context of Romans 2 to the end of Romans 11.

Romans 9:30-32
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness,
attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel,
pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they
did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works.

Now read, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated", within that given context.

How can you utter, "Scripture needs to always be taken in its immediate and overall context"

When you immediately depart from the context of Romans chapter 2 to chapter 11.

Paul is explaining why Israel failed!

A ridiculous assessment of the passage.

Jesus is rejoicing in the REVEALING......not the hiding. Obviously.

My brother, I feel like I’ve known you my whole life.
Glory to God for giving use peace and joy!

the Scriptures clearly tell us that He has mercy upon whom He wills and whom He wills He hardens (Rom 9:18) and that He chose His elect according to the good pleasure of His will to the praise of the glory of His grace (Eph 1:4-6) and before they were born (Rom 9:11) which would exclude anything man had done lest he have something in which to boast before God (1 Cor 1:27-29).

If you love this topic then you will love reading the book below.

The Doctrine of Election - AW Pink

those who received the Holy Spirit were indeed all saved.

Israel was a shadow and type of the true Israel of God (Gal 6:16) in the New Covenant which fulfilled the promise to Abraham that in him all nations would be blessed and not simply the one and confirms that God saves by grace and not by race.