Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

Act 1:25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."

It saddens me that your pride has caused you to be unteachable, not willing to submit to the plain truth of Scripture that is given you, with no response to simple questions of doctrine and now it seems that you are judicially blinded by God no matter how holy you may claim to be. I will continue to pray for you.

. Your entire form of argumentation is textbook fallacy. Maybe someday you'll wake up to seeing that TULIP is rightly questioned by many. If and when you care to actually discuss Scripture and not a systematic theology, He seems to always have others available to work through things, at least for now. Right now you reveal no such interest, which may also be revealing no such ability.

Again, this is how it goes with Christians who are taught a systematic theology, but not taught to read and analyze Scripture.

according to you, Paul must have been horribly mistaken for calling everyone in Christ the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise given to Abraham which were not just those in Galatia to whom Paul was writing in Galatians 6:16 but to the Israel of God throughout the whole world made up of both Jew and Gentile!

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

One of my biggest qualms with a common Calvinist line of thinking is that Faith is a work when that is clearly unbiblical. This video does an amazing job of clearly that up. It was so good I thought it was worth sharing.

Calling each other satanic is probably not a good idea.

But He keeps talking right? He doesn't end it there, He tells THEM in 24: 34-35 " 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.", then does go on to tell them that no one knows the day, but He tells THEM "THIS GENERATION" will NOT pass away before ALL these things take place.
Jesus tells them so clearly right here that that generation would be around for everything He just told hem about. Do we need to just reread the whole chapter? Go over the "ALL" He is talking about.

The whole time the story always was that the Messiah brought salvation and judgement, Jesus brought the salvation, poured His Spirit out on man, and within that generation the judgement on the covenant breaking Jews, the promised judgement at the end of that AGE that ushered in the new covenant and His kingdom on earth, not a kingdom that you can point to and say "there it is", but an eternal kingdom He rules and His people from all nations make it up, the new Israel. The kingdom that would never see defeat and that the gates of hell cannot prevail against. All this happen EXACTLY like He said it would and exactly when He said it would. Within THAT GENERATION Jerusalem was destroyed, the temple torn down, not one brick left on another, all the priestly genealogies were burnt to ash, it was described by eye witnesses like "the blood was flowing through the streets", and scenes where a woman is offering others some of her food. It was her own child she had cooked and was eating because everyone was starving to death.

To be honest I believe you HAVE to add to scripture to get anything else out of these verses. "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." Is pretty dang clear, and the fact the historical record even supports that it happened exactly like Jesus said it would is powerful to me, and putting all this future to us just takes all that away and opens Jesus up to accusations that He gave a false prophesy. So from my point of view it robs Him of the amazing nature of Gods perfect power over time and knowing what's going to happen, but it also opens Jesus up to attacks that I feel shouldn't even be on the table. Jesus predicted everything perfectly.

Now I understand the nature of this debate, trust me I am down south in the Bible belt and have never been to a church where the Pre-trib Rapture wasn't preached with fire! So I know it gets intense and I'm not trying to step on toes here, but in truth the more screws I took to this belief the less it made sense to me. I believe that everything points to this coming judgement that Jesus is telling them about being a breath away. Everything from the fig tree the Jesus cursed for producing no fruit, to the parable of the landowner that lets people farm his land and ends up sending his son that they end up killing, to the woman He tells on the way to the cross "do not weep for me, weep for your children", He knew something was coming and even this small obscure verse seems to fit better with the view these things already took place.

I can go on and on about this stuff, but am not trying to "correct" anyone as much as I am share how I feel He has lead me to see it.

There's ONLY ONE THING ABOUT CALVINISM that I personally adhere to: IN ALL THINGS GOD MOVES FIRST.

You misrepresented scripture and falsely made claims about origins and used data that was already proven incorrect.

It would be impossible for me to convince a liar of anything because it takes a liar to believe their own lies.

You're problem is that I am not the punching bag but the one who God uses to throw punches back at the liars.

That is not the gospel, that is a typical example of systematic theology.

The apostle Paul told us what the gospel is.

1 Corinthians15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brothers and sisters, the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received, in which you also stand, by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I handed down to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Now look again at your post #582 and compare it with what the scripture calls the gospel.

How can you possibly get that wrong?

nobody wakes up saved one morning so obviously to say we do absolutely nothing is foolish.
People are saved when God subdues the will. This is an easier process for some than it is for others, a happier process for some than it is for others.

God's will prevails in every case.

you are foolish

You talk alot about grace but you are not very gracious ... you might wish to ponder that.

God's punishment of sin was known by the early Puritans as "God's peculiar work" that is to say it is a work He does that is averse to His nature. He waits with long suffering.

The early Puritans of the 16th century were a different breed to the Puritans of the 17th century. They were gentle, of such of their number is William Tynedale.
The 17th century Puritans had become political ... not unsimilar to the present day Evangelicals in America.

Whatever "one eye guy". The only reason I took you off ignore is to defeat you for the purposes of the edification of the board.

Here you go "one eye guy". Friends of yours perhaps?

https://vigilantcitizen.com/category/pics-of-the-month/

https://vigilantcitizen.com/pics-of-the-month/symbolic-pics-of-the-month-08-23/

In other words, the place of his own choosing. A choice made by his own free will.
He was offered the kingdom, time and time again. And refused.....time and time again.

Did God make him refuse? Absolutely NOT.

All done. max. Your entire form of argumentation is textbook fallacy. Maybe someday you'll wake up to seeing that TULIP is rightly questioned by many. If and when you care to actually discuss Scripture and not a systematic theology, He seems to always have others available to work through things, at least for now. Right now you reveal no such interest, which may also be revealing no such ability.

Again, this is how it goes with Christians who are taught a systematic theology, but not taught to read and analyze Scripture. The Word and the Spirit is our ultimate Teacher and Lord. His name is not John Calvin, nor Jacobus Arminius, or the Early Church Fathers or any other theologian or pastor. It's pretty much a minefield in our day and infant Christians crawl into one of tens of thousand of denominations and unknowingly begin getting indoctrinated into a system of interpretation.

FWIW, our ultimate Teacher and Lord is Jesus Christ (John13:13) and we have His Spirit in us leading us, guiding us, teaching us, testing us, training us, disciplining us, raising us to maturity and beyond. In my experience sitting under pastors and teachers, I would periodically get checks in my spirit about things that didn't make sense. Over the decades of studies I found clearly that many of those checks proved to be about teachings I later saw to be erroneous.

10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. (Acts 17:10-11 NKJ)

Paul was writing to Christians who knew who Christ was but the world does not know the Lord Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture unless He is revealed to them by the Holy Spirit through the ministry of the Gospel which proclaims who God truly is so that men would see who they truly are before Him and in turn are brought to see their desperate need of grace found only in Christ who came to secure salvation for His people.

Any Christ that is proclaimed as coming simply to make salvation possible for those who somehow have the ability within themselves to choose Him is a false Christ and not the Lord Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture who warned of such false Christs appearing.

Below is a short pamphlet I recently linked to called The Christ of Arminianism (Freewillism) warning of this false Christ. I highly recommend you and all here read it.

The Christ of Arminianism (Freewillism) by Rev. Steven Houck

Jud 1:4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I HAVE RAISED YOU UP, THAT I MAY SHOW MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MAY BE DECLARED IN ALL THE EARTH."
Rom 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Pro 16:4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Psa 92:7 When the wicked spring up like grass, And when all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever.

Somebody is horribly mistaken, that's for sure. And it ain't me.

Hos 5:15
I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
***Then*** they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

Israel MUST ASK (***of their own free will***) CHRIST TO RETURN ("speak to the Rock") before He comes......the Second Coming.

And when they do.....BOOM! They enter into the New Covenant, and THEREBY finally fulfill completely the covenant made to Abraham.

Then we of the already redeemed will say:
"We bid you welcome, Oh Israel, into the New Covenant of faith in your Messiah, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

And then the WEDDING SUPPER commences in the blessed Millennial reign of the King.

I have consistently used Holy Scripture to tell you that God only has ONE wife which is the Church and you have not been able to use Scripture to prove me wrong, therefore I will take Scripture of your words any day.

Gal_4:16 Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?