Abraham’s descendants - How many Gen 22:17

Okay Letter-of-the-Laws, How many descendants did Abraham have specifically in Genesis 22:17:
“blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.”

Revelation 7:9...a number that no man can number.

From my understanding ,Christ is considered the seed of Abraham.


If any man is in Christ ,he is Abrahams seed.
I recon the number still going up.

Yes, Jesus Christ is from the seed of Abraham according to the flesh. Romans 9:4-5. Secondly, remember what Jesus said at John 8;58? "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

As a very interesting side note from Genesis 22;15-17, it was the angel of the Lord (the preincarnate Jesus Christ) who made the promise to Abraham. Vs15, Then the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven. vs16, and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld you son, your only son, vs17, "indeed I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the seashore; and you seed shall possess the gate of their enemies."

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

1. There's the ancient Israelites
2. There's the Gentile gathering in Revelation 7:9
3. There's the Beheaded who refuse the MOB in Revelation 20:4
4. When the Jews in the 2nd half of Tribulation understand the AC is not God they will convert to Christ and be gathered at the Second Coming [but they are also already natural offspring of Abraham] Matthew 24
5. We know during the 1,000 year Reign of Christ at the end there will be some who get deceived by Satan when he is released but the remaining peoples will be saved.
6. If we want to get technical here. Those who served God from Adam to Abraham will become adopted heirs.
7. Cannot forget the Proselyte Gentiles who followed the LAW and would become adopted heirs.


We're talking possibly around 10 Billion?
If it's a Godly number, 7 Billion?

It's going to be a lot for sure.

Since you are a convert from judaism, I would like to ask your view on the timing of the rapture and whether there will be sacrifices in the millennium? Do you believe the TEMPLE where the antichrist sets himself up as God is the church or third jewish temple in Jerusalem?

I believe Revelation 7:9 shows us all nations, tongues, people which are those who follow Jesus or converted Gentiles and Jews who believe Jesus is the Messiah are us right now.
And Revelation 7:14 tells those in verse 7:9 "These are they that come out of great tribulation."

So whether that is the 1st day of tribulation or before the AC sits in the Temple and then creates war on the Saints I believe that happens before the Satanic Wrath that God allows.
The interesting part of the Temple on earth is that it is a copy of the one that exists right now in Heaven. And what's more alluring about the Temple that exists in Heaven is how God originally had man first create the moveable (tent) Tabernacle. The moveable (tent) Tabernacle is nowhere in Heaven because Its connection is closest to the human body (moveable tabernacle where God lives inside of us).

So when we talk about when Jesus will be the physical King of kings/Lord of lords on Earth for a 1,000 years He will be accessible to worship in person. I believe the Temple will just be a place of honor and remembrance.
Really good question. Immediately I do not think it will be the Church because it's related to the Jews only when the AC becomes an abomination, claims to be God, and fulfills that purpose so the Jews understand they have been deceived. But clearly it's in some building where sacrifice is happening and the AC will put a stop to it.

As I type this there are currently 3 perfect red heifers literally weeks away from being approved to sacrifice, burn to ashes, dedicate the Temple Mount and grounds and Bless a New High Priest. Israel has already requested to the United Nations three times for permission to rebuild their what would be a third Temple. We're already seeing Israel disobeying the United Nation with this War against Hamas. They are not listening to anyone. So I do not see them listening to anyone when these Red Heifers are ready. And even though the United States has been a force against Israel to stop this current War. I believe the United States would not let other nations come in and stop the construction should Israel begin rebuilding the Temple.

I see it being that once the Red Heifers are ready that Israel is already of the mindset they are at War and need God and many truly believe the Temple would give them more of an advantage they already have.

So if that happens. I think it would clearly answer where the AC will fulfill the prophecies in Daniel and Thessalonians.

Very helpful. I wish I could be inside your mind for a little bit. I appreciate your view.

Can you answer a few more of my questions please?

1. In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 it says that when Jesus returns in flaming fire He will bring vengeance to those who persecute His people and all who dont know God or obey the Gospel will be punished with eternal damnation. My question is: Who is left in the flesh to populate this millennium? This is why I am amill currently. I see no way out of this box. Maybe you do? Let me know brother.

2. Who do you believe is Mystery Babylon? Mecca, Vatican, Jerusalem, New York, Rome?

3. Do you believe the seals, trumpets and vials are in chronological order? Meaning, Seal 1,2,3,4,6,7 -> Trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 -> Vials 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 END of the world as we know it.

4. What parts of the Torah do you believe the gentiles should follow? Dietary laws? Sabbath? Circumcision? Holy days? None at all?


That is all, I wish I could send a private message but sadly I cant unless I pay money.

Sarah which gave Abraham Isaac, which gave him Jacob who is Israel, and all those people.

Hagar which gave him Ishmael who God blessed to be a mighty people which I believe it is the Arabs.

Keturah which gave him 6 children and all those children they had, which Jewish tradition says she was from Japheth, one of Noah's sons, and Sarah from Shem's lineage, and Hagar from Ham's linage.

This makes Abraham in the mix of all of Noah's 3 sons which populated the earth.

Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

All people who have the same faith as Abraham is blessed like him, and when a Gentile is saved they become a Jew inward, and are part of the commonwealth of Israel belonging to that nation that received the covenants, and promises from God.

Ruth, a Gentile Moabitess woman, is part of the genealogy of Jesus which seems like it would be so the shed blood of Christ can come upon the Gentiles washing away their sins giving them the same blessing as Israel.

Both Mary and Joseph were descendants of King David (Matthew 1:6, 17-18 and Luke 3:23-24, 31-32).

Therefore, Mary provided the biological connection between King David to Jesus Christ.

Joseph provided the legal connection or right of royalty ascension to the Davidic throne.

Indeed
If you read closer. Paul even writes this in the first verse, verse 7, 7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels.

Paul is showing Believers are here with the ones you are talking about, the persecutors of God's people. And we know this is at the Second Coming of Jesus because the evil ones get eternal damnation. But this also leaves a group of Christians who was not Raptured during the Tribulation because Paul plainly shows us by writing "and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us."

It's these Christians, the ones not Rapture'd, that will be on Earth when the Second Coming of Jesus happens. They will go right into the 1,000 year Reign and populate future generations.
If we apply all of the Bible we know we have a general area the Bible tells us.
1. King of Tyre {Satan king of future Babyon}
2. Prince of Persia {Satan who held Gabriel 21 days before Michael came and Grabriel was able to answer Daniel's prayer - Persia in same area and replaced Babylon}
And we have Revelation 18: (look at verse 2)
“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!
She has become a dwelling place for demons,
a haunt for every unclean spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.

Babylon is led and controlled by Satan, every Demon, Unclean spirit, Unclean things resides at.

It's a physical place on Earth.

Today, we know this area is IRAN.

Look at the connection Iran has right now with her connections to Russia, China, Middle East, she has the most materials for nuclear weapons, she is very wealthy from oil, and most of the world's conflicts going back to Jimmy Carter when Reagan was elected involved Iran. And in the Bible, Iran or Babylon/Persia/Tyre afflicted God's chosen people, made them slaves, stole from the Temple trillions worth in ancient Gold. Iran even fits the Biblical description of ships in it's harbor, having much Gold, connection to other Nations, and the Bible flat out tells us where the Kingdom of Satan is at on Earth, IRAN!
I believe Revelation itself is an outline but it doesn't mean everything in it is in chronological order.

We know Revelation 12 talks about War in Heaven, Satan booted and took 1/3 of the Angels with him, then Israel became a nation, and that produced it's King, a Son, Jesus. So all of these things happened way before Chapter 12 of Revelation. In fact, only the latter portion of Chapter 12 has future implications and the first portion happened from before Creation/the Garden to 2,000 years ago when Jesus was here.

It's very clear that some of Revelation is in future Order and some of it is refers to old history that already happened.
The Law was broken down to 4 Major Themes.
1. Ceremonial Law
2. Sacrificial Law
3. Dietary Law
4. Moral Law [10 Commandments]

Jesus broke these Laws down to 2. And if we pay attention the 2 Laws Jesus instructed us, it literally covers every 10 of the Moral Laws. So essentially we are still following the 10 Commandments by following the 2 Laws Jesus gave to us.

Numbers people. Numbers.

The strict Letter-of-the-Laws won’t reply because this is an example of God not being specific. I mean, how would you count the sand on the seashore, or the stars. Believe it or not, the Letter-of-the-Laws will argue this.

Just thinking about this if we look up they say we can count "between about 2,600 and 4,500 stars on any given night in a single hemisphere under perfect conditions". What did God say? "Look to the heavens and count the stars if you are able". Yeah... haha just being funny but.. I wonder.. you think Father Abraham is still counting?

But to think about this.. they also say "There are approximately 200 billion trillion stars in the universe. Or, to put it another way, 200 sextillion". A never ending (guess) universe.. they can't count that high.

The KJB has "seed" so we will quote both verses from there: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

We also need to bring together all the other passages in Genesis to get the full picture. So the "seed" of Abraham includes (1) all his descendants from the twelve tribes of Jacob/Israel until Christ establishes His Kingdom on earth (2) every believer who has believed like Abraham, and been justified by grace through faith and (3) Christ Himself, who came from the tribe of Judah and the royal line of David.

So, how many?

Only God knows.

This is one of those that drives the Letter-of-the-Law posters crazy. Because it shows that God uses generalities and not always specific numbers.