Who killed Goliath?

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MOC

Member
Mar 20, 2020
84
69
18
#1
One of the most popular stories in the Old Testament is that of David and Goliath. The story teaches courage, faith, and overcoming impossible challenges. We read about two nations at war in that of the people of Israel and the Philistines. Both armies would decide on a champion to fight for them (though David volunteered) and whomever was defeated would leave the land. David would say to Goliath, the Philistine champion, "This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand."
Unfortunately, if these stories of the bible are not studied diligently, they can be told incorrectly, which leads to distorted and confusing scripture. Details of bible stories can be passed down by people who don't even believe in God and get the context and the meaning completely wrong and much worse, Christians can do just as much damage. For example, how was Goliath killed? Many will claim that Goliath was killed by a rock and a sling. This would be incorrect. We can read in 1 Samuel 17:49, that David "smote" or hit the giant in the forehead with a rock and his sling causing him to fall down on his face. This did not kill him. In verse 50 it says, "but there was no sword in the hand of David." Why did David need a sword? To finish it. David cuts-off the giants head and the Philistines "saw their champion was dead and they fled."
There is another description of this story that often gets told wrong. How many stones did David carry with him to battle? It took just one stone to knock the giant down, but David carried with him five stones. So, this leads us back to the original question. Who killed Goliath?

1 Samuel 17:49-51 "And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut-off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled."

In the passage of 1 Samuel, it is clear that David kills Goliath. But if we look in the ESV bible of 2 Samuel there seems to be a different hero.

2 Samuel 21:19(ESV) "And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan, the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam."

So which version is the truth? Are these two passages a contradiction in our bibles? Some experts assume this unknown man named Elhanan killed Goliath, while others attribute David as the hero. Scholars have turned to the Dead Sea Scrolls for answers to help reveal the correct interpretation of this event, but unfortunately a gap occurs in the text at exactly the verses in question. There are other different bibles stating Elhanan as the giant killer. Also, reading in the Masoretic Hebrew text we see Elhanan again.

**To be fair, the King James Version has put in italics, the brother of, in 2 Samuel 21:19 stating that it was the brother of Goliath as to whom Elhanan killed. But when words are put in italics in the King James Version, it means that those words are not from the original text.

1 Chronicles 20:5 "And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam." Some have suggested that this passage of scripture has been deliberately altered to avoid an embarrassing contradiction. But what most scholars believe is that this passage has been translated to mirror the original text in 1 Samuel.

Looking closer at 2 Samuel 21:19, it seems to indicate that this was a separate war than the one in 1 Samuel. Also, David was a servant of Saul in 1 Samuel, where as in 2 Samuel David was king of Israel. So there seems to be two different time frames that has David killing Goliath in one event and Elhanan killing another giant(Lahmi) in another point in time.

Scribal error??
Look at how Elhanan's father is translated in 2 Samuel 21:19 and in 1 Chronicles 20:5.
2 Samuel 21:19.............."Jaare-oregim"
1 Chronicles 20:5........."Jair"
The extra "oregim" has crept into the text of Samuel by a process called homoioteleuton. This is a scribes error caused by visual oversight of two similar grammar endings. Also, lets look at how Elhanan is identified in 2 Samuel and how the giant's name is translated in 1 Chronicles.
2 Samuel 21:19................."Bethlehemite"
1 Chronicles 20:5............."Lahmi"
These occur in the same position in the Hebrew text. There is a somewhat similarity of the ending of the word "Bethlehemite" and "lahmi". So it is possible that these two words got corrupted over time. Writings of the word Bethlehemite may have crept into the text creating "Lahmi", which really wasn't the name of the giant that Elhanan slew, but was simply a scribal error.

David took down Goliath. Elhanan, the Bethlehemite, took down Goliath's brother who's name is uncertain, because of an unfortunate oversight by a scribe/scribes. There really should not be much concern for scribal errors, such as the ones that maybe attributed to the passages mentioned. What seems to be contradictions can be resolved through studying and researching the bible. Reading and studying other parallel passages and comparing other biblical occurrences, we can confidently understand what the text is saying. Also, the way scribes wrote down biblical passages and the habits they practiced, there should be little alarm about deliberate changes in scripture.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
710
163
43
#2
One of the most popular stories in the Old Testament is that of David and Goliath. The story teaches courage, faith, and overcoming impossible challenges. We read about two nations at war in that of the people of Israel and the Philistines. Both armies would decide on a champion to fight for them (though David volunteered) and whomever was defeated would leave the land. David would say to Goliath, the Philistine champion, "This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand."
Unfortunately, if these stories of the bible are not studied diligently, they can be told incorrectly, which leads to distorted and confusing scripture. Details of bible stories can be passed down by people who don't even believe in God and get the context and the meaning completely wrong and much worse, Christians can do just as much damage. For example, how was Goliath killed? Many will claim that Goliath was killed by a rock and a sling. This would be incorrect. We can read in 1 Samuel 17:49, that David "smote" or hit the giant in the forehead with a rock and his sling causing him to fall down on his face. This did not kill him. In verse 50 it says, "but there was no sword in the hand of David." Why did David need a sword? To finish it. David cuts-off the giants head and the Philistines "saw their champion was dead and they fled."
There is another description of this story that often gets told wrong. How many stones did David carry with him to battle? It took just one stone to knock the giant down, but David carried with him five stones. So, this leads us back to the original question. Who killed Goliath?

1 Samuel 17:49-51 "And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut-off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled."

In the passage of 1 Samuel, it is clear that David kills Goliath. But if we look in the ESV bible of 2 Samuel there seems to be a different hero.

2 Samuel 21:19(ESV) "And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan, the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam."

So which version is the truth? Are these two passages a contradiction in our bibles? Some experts assume this unknown man named Elhanan killed Goliath, while others attribute David as the hero. Scholars have turned to the Dead Sea Scrolls for answers to help reveal the correct interpretation of this event, but unfortunately a gap occurs in the text at exactly the verses in question. There are other different bibles stating Elhanan as the giant killer. Also, reading in the Masoretic Hebrew text we see Elhanan again.

**To be fair, the King James Version has put in italics, the brother of, in 2 Samuel 21:19 stating that it was the brother of Goliath as to whom Elhanan killed. But when words are put in italics in the King James Version, it means that those words are not from the original text.

1 Chronicles 20:5 "And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam." Some have suggested that this passage of scripture has been deliberately altered to avoid an embarrassing contradiction. But what most scholars believe is that this passage has been translated to mirror the original text in 1 Samuel.

Looking closer at 2 Samuel 21:19, it seems to indicate that this was a separate war than the one in 1 Samuel. Also, David was a servant of Saul in 1 Samuel, where as in 2 Samuel David was king of Israel. So there seems to be two different time frames that has David killing Goliath in one event and Elhanan killing another giant(Lahmi) in another point in time.

Scribal error??
Look at how Elhanan's father is translated in 2 Samuel 21:19 and in 1 Chronicles 20:5.
2 Samuel 21:19.............."Jaare-oregim"
1 Chronicles 20:5........."Jair"
The extra "oregim" has crept into the text of Samuel by a process called homoioteleuton. This is a scribes error caused by visual oversight of two similar grammar endings. Also, lets look at how Elhanan is identified in 2 Samuel and how the giant's name is translated in 1 Chronicles.
2 Samuel 21:19................."Bethlehemite"
1 Chronicles 20:5............."Lahmi"
These occur in the same position in the Hebrew text. There is a somewhat similarity of the ending of the word "Bethlehemite" and "lahmi". So it is possible that these two words got corrupted over time. Writings of the word Bethlehemite may have crept into the text creating "Lahmi", which really wasn't the name of the giant that Elhanan slew, but was simply a scribal error.

David took down Goliath. Elhanan, the Bethlehemite, took down Goliath's brother who's name is uncertain, because of an unfortunate oversight by a scribe/scribes. There really should not be much concern for scribal errors, such as the ones that maybe attributed to the passages mentioned. What seems to be contradictions can be resolved through studying and researching the bible. Reading and studying other parallel passages and comparing other biblical occurrences, we can confidently understand what the text is saying. Also, the way scribes wrote down biblical passages and the habits they practiced, there should be little alarm about deliberate changes in scripture.
Hmm, we don’t know so we’re just gonna go with David. Yeah I’m lazy and probably won’t lose any sleep over it. Good find though
 
May 22, 2024
57
12
8
#3
1Sam17:49
The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell facedown on the ground.

50 So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone; without a sword in his hand he struck down the Philistine and killed him.

David's stone killed goliath, in beheading him David made it visible clear that he was dead.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
710
163
43
#4
1Sam17:49
The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell facedown on the ground.

50 So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone; without a sword in his hand he struck down the Philistine and killed him.

David's stone killed goliath, in beheading him David made it visible clear that he was dead.
He didn’t ask “How” he asked “who” killed Goliath.
 

MOC

Member
Mar 20, 2020
84
69
18
#5
1Sam17:49
The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell facedown on the ground.

50 So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone; without a sword in his hand he struck down the Philistine and killed him.

David's stone killed goliath, in beheading him David made it visible clear that he was dead.

It may depend on what bible we are reading from, because remember, the Philistines did not flee until they were sure Goliath was dead. This did not happen until David got the sword and cut-off Goliath's head.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,840
13,195
113
#6
Goliath of Gath is not the same person as Goliath the Gittite.

How many people named John are there?
Do we think they are all the same person?
No?

Then why would we think two people who are specifically differentiated from each other by their hometowns are the same?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,840
13,195
113
#7
One of the most popular stories in the Old Testament is that of David and Goliath. The story teaches courage, faith, and overcoming impossible challenges. We read about two nations at war in that of the people of Israel and the Philistines. Both armies would decide on a champion to fight for them (though David volunteered) and whomever was defeated would leave the land. David would say to Goliath, the Philistine champion, "This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand."
Unfortunately, if these stories of the bible are not studied diligently, they can be told incorrectly, which leads to distorted and confusing scripture. Details of bible stories can be passed down by people who don't even believe in God and get the context and the meaning completely wrong and much worse, Christians can do just as much damage. For example, how was Goliath killed? Many will claim that Goliath was killed by a rock and a sling. This would be incorrect. We can read in 1 Samuel 17:49, that David "smote" or hit the giant in the forehead with a rock and his sling causing him to fall down on his face. This did not kill him. In verse 50 it says, "but there was no sword in the hand of David." Why did David need a sword? To finish it. David cuts-off the giants head and the Philistines "saw their champion was dead and they fled."
There is another description of this story that often gets told wrong. How many stones did David carry with him to battle? It took just one stone to knock the giant down, but David carried with him five stones. So, this leads us back to the original question. Who killed Goliath?

1 Samuel 17:49-51 "And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut-off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled."

In the passage of 1 Samuel, it is clear that David kills Goliath. But if we look in the ESV bible of 2 Samuel there seems to be a different hero.

2 Samuel 21:19(ESV) "And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan, the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam."

So which version is the truth? Are these two passages a contradiction in our bibles? Some experts assume this unknown man named Elhanan killed Goliath, while others attribute David as the hero. Scholars have turned to the Dead Sea Scrolls for answers to help reveal the correct interpretation of this event, but unfortunately a gap occurs in the text at exactly the verses in question. There are other different bibles stating Elhanan as the giant killer. Also, reading in the Masoretic Hebrew text we see Elhanan again.

**To be fair, the King James Version has put in italics, the brother of, in 2 Samuel 21:19 stating that it was the brother of Goliath as to whom Elhanan killed. But when words are put in italics in the King James Version, it means that those words are not from the original text.

1 Chronicles 20:5 "And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam." Some have suggested that this passage of scripture has been deliberately altered to avoid an embarrassing contradiction. But what most scholars believe is that this passage has been translated to mirror the original text in 1 Samuel.

Looking closer at 2 Samuel 21:19, it seems to indicate that this was a separate war than the one in 1 Samuel. Also, David was a servant of Saul in 1 Samuel, where as in 2 Samuel David was king of Israel. So there seems to be two different time frames that has David killing Goliath in one event and Elhanan killing another giant(Lahmi) in another point in time.

Scribal error??
Look at how Elhanan's father is translated in 2 Samuel 21:19 and in 1 Chronicles 20:5.
2 Samuel 21:19.............."Jaare-oregim"
1 Chronicles 20:5........."Jair"
The extra "oregim" has crept into the text of Samuel by a process called homoioteleuton. This is a scribes error caused by visual oversight of two similar grammar endings. Also, lets look at how Elhanan is identified in 2 Samuel and how the giant's name is translated in 1 Chronicles.
2 Samuel 21:19................."Bethlehemite"
1 Chronicles 20:5............."Lahmi"
These occur in the same position in the Hebrew text. There is a somewhat similarity of the ending of the word "Bethlehemite" and "lahmi". So it is possible that these two words got corrupted over time. Writings of the word Bethlehemite may have crept into the text creating "Lahmi", which really wasn't the name of the giant that Elhanan slew, but was simply a scribal error.

David took down Goliath. Elhanan, the Bethlehemite, took down Goliath's brother who's name is uncertain, because of an unfortunate oversight by a scribe/scribes. There really should not be much concern for scribal errors, such as the ones that maybe attributed to the passages mentioned. What seems to be contradictions can be resolved through studying and researching the bible. Reading and studying other parallel passages and comparing other biblical occurrences, we can confidently understand what the text is saying. Also, the way scribes wrote down biblical passages and the habits they practiced, there should be little alarm about deliberate changes in scripture.
How many years are there between 1 Samuel 17 and 2 Samuel 21?

In 2 Samuel 21 David has already been king for years.
In 1 Samuel 17 he's still a kid not old enough to have left his father's house, and Saul still has many years ahead of him as king.

Clearly not the same event and clearly not the same Goliath.

Why 5 stones?
Because Goliath of Gath has 4 brothers.

No need to doubt scripture here.